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Old 12-15-2016, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Bay View, Milwaukee
2,567 posts, read 5,286,324 times
Reputation: 3673

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccjarider View Post
I am not, and I do not think most people are against quality education.

People are frustrated that they do not seem to be getting value for their investment.
I do think that in last several decades, public education has done a terrible job of educating. US public school kids are just plain dumber than their counterparts around the world.
It depends on what "value" means.

Public education, I think, has had mixed success with educating kids. Much emphasis has been placed on "critical thinking" and other process skills, with some success (U.S. kids are often intellectually less rigid and more creative than European counterparts, and it shows in our more dynamic business cultures). But less emphasis has been placed on erudition (expertise in fields), so we get kids who don't know where Lake Michigan is or who the Supreme Court justices are. Also, of course, there's been less emphasis on math and science, so we get people who need to use a calculator to perform basic arithmetic and who value superstition over empirical truth.

Our public universities are generally much more rigorous than the k-12 schools, but there are major gaps there, too.

Quote:
These organizations spend inordinate time and money preaching propaganda. I recall my kids coming home from Hamilton High School in Sussex with blatantly leftist materials. These materials were not just put out there as examples of how some people think either. They were being taught as if they were gospel. This just really pisses off many people.
I wonder if the anger would be the same if the kid brought home blatantly right-wing materials. For me, it would depend on what the "propaganda" actually is and how it was presented.

Quote:
We want educators to teach our kids skills and how to think - NOT WHAT TO THINK.
Does this make sense?
I definitely agree with that. Part of the problem, though, is that some areas of study (where skills are learned) are seen as inherently "leftist" or "right-wing."

It's great for a student to learn Spanish or History, but if that involves studying immigration or Latin American dictatorships or the perils of European colonialism, is that all "leftist"? Or is it a legitimate part of the culture to study? Is all science-supported study of environmental science and evolution necessarily "leftist"? The study of Native Americans, Blacks, and other groups may be perceived as "leftist" by default. Reading novels that seek the reader's sympathy for downtrodden, Dickensian victims of capitalism may be seen as inherently "leftist." And so on. It doesn't have to be this, and all of these things (I believe) are worthy of study, but there may be a built-in bias to some areas.

Same with "conservative" beliefs: the study of the Bible, economics, business, the history of kings and queens, Milton and Dante, etc., yields great skills, but may be seen as having a built-in bias to right-wing thought.
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Old 12-16-2016, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Western North Carolina
7,990 posts, read 10,555,362 times
Reputation: 18759
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaseMan View Post
I'm curious what the Trump supporters posting in this thread think Trump will do that will actually be positive for Wisconsin. It would be nice to hear some real answers, not just more, "rah rah rah, go Trump, MAGA!", stuff.
How about YES WE CAN (and didn't).
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Old 12-16-2016, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Bay View, Milwaukee
2,567 posts, read 5,286,324 times
Reputation: 3673
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRlaura View Post
I can't believe the good people got this one right! The Marquette polls and all others were wrong. Madison got a firm kick in the butt. Nice job voters!
It looks like the conservative talk-radio personality Charlie Sykes isn't thanking Wisconsin very much for the Gift of Trump. Sykes's divisive rhetoric helped to create the Trump Train, but now he's feeling shunned because he doesn't want to board and take the ride. To Sykes's credit, the article is well written and shows a restrained and considerate perspective that didn't often come through in his firebrand radio show:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/15/op...smtyp=cur&_r=0
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Old 12-16-2016, 10:02 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,754,792 times
Reputation: 40634
Quote:
Originally Posted by earthlyfather View Post
Support your supposition with other than a question. That also is a debate tactic, avoid exposing yourself by throwing a question back.
How can he/she provide an example of it happening if it doesn't happen?

I too have never seen cuts lead to better results when apples are compared to apples.

For instance, a charter school might get better tests score for less spending per student compared to a traditional school... but it's not apples to apples since often the charter schools don't have to take everyone (special needs students, for examples) like a traditional school, or they don't offer sports teams, band, etc. So it isn't comparing apples to apples.

I can't support the supposition since the example does not exist to show that cuts lead to better results.
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Old 12-16-2016, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Sector 001
15,932 posts, read 12,194,660 times
Reputation: 16097
Thank you wisconsin and the Milwaukee talk radio scene for keeping it real. I still listen to Belling fairly often with Iheart. I don't agree with him on everything of course but I find him entertaining.
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