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When we bought our house almost a year ago, the owner/seller walked us around the property borders & said that one of the neighbors was "over mowing" and there was a dispute about where a property line was. The owner/seller had owned his house for 40 years and the neighbors moved in 5 years ago. The owner/seller said he just let it go because it was "less to mow". We noticed this spring that these neighbors have pushed this property line out even further and planted more shrubs along it. (how far out will they go & where does this end?) We decided we wanted to plant trees along this property line (mostly to block out this neighbor's yard, for numerous reasons). We contacted a licensed surveyor and said we wanted to keep our costs low, and he recommended doing a "partial survey". This consisted of using equipment to locate the underground metal stakes marking our property corners & then flagging the one corner property line shared with these neighbors. The neighbor came out & asked our surveyor what he was doing, which enabled him to also let her know what he had found -which was that they were encroaching on our property by about 8' x 60'. The surveyor recommended that we talk to the neighbor about it & just ask that they move their shrubs & arbor from our property. The neighbor's response was that one flagged marker was not a sufficient survey, & that we should pay for one & then provide them with the results. We contacted the surveyor and a survey is scheduled and at full cost. ($800-1000) Because the neighbors are requiring that we get a full survey (with all stakes and a certified map), we are going to request that they share the cost & pay for half ($400-500). If they refuse to pay, would we win if we took it to small claims court?
Not sure if win or not since you are the one requesting the survey.Maybe if person had to the one mark survey witnessed them saying wanted full survey could win.But if it is done and they do not want to pay,rip out arbor and mow down the bushes. My neighbor is same way and now yelling at my kids when I know tree is on my property saying it is on hers.I had city do a not so good mark and that tree is like 8 feet into my yard.
Good luck
I don't know the specifics on law but I do know that getting things in writing helps. What I mean is, after the low cost survey, provide the neighbors with a request in writing to move their bushes and such. Have them respond to you in writing as well, including the request for the full survey. That way if you have to take them to court for anything, you have proof to back you up. Verbal communications are extremely hard to prove. I would imagine if they request for you to do the survey in writing, than down the road you may be able to sue them in small claims court for half the cost. You might want to consult with a lawyer though.
I worked for a lawyer in MI when they had a very nasty land boundary case. ****I have no authority to give legal advice, but want to pass on what I saw from a layperson's standpoint****
This case got very nasty and very expensive. In fact, we had a couple land cases that got very nasty and very expensive. Imagine going through months or years of fighting over the boundary and you still have to be neighbors with them! What I took from these cases was to try to make things as easy as possible and stay as nice as possible.
If it were me in this situation, I would just pay for the survey myself. Its a lot cheaper than a lawsuit. Although, as I'm thinking through it, if it is them that want a total survey, I would try to talk to them, nicely, ask them to share the cost. If they won't, explain that you don't want this to upset the balance, and therefore, at this time, will pay for the survey, but before that happens, ask for them to put into writing that they were the ones to first request the survey be done. I'm just thinking if it does go to court, there is a small possibility of getting them to pay for half the cost after the fact.
But, above all, find a good lawyer that respects your wishes to figure this out quick and nicely. You might have to pay a retainer, or you might be able to "puchase" a couple hours for them to review Wisconsin's land laws to you.
You might also want to make sure you have current contact information for the previous owner.
I worked for a lawyer in MI when they had a very nasty land boundary case. ****I have no authority to give legal advice, but want to pass on what I saw from a layperson's standpoint****
This case got very nasty and very expensive. In fact, we had a couple land cases that got very nasty and very expensive. Imagine going through months or years of fighting over the boundary and you still have to be neighbors with them! What I took from these cases was to try to make things as easy as possible and stay as nice as possible.
If it were me in this situation, I would just pay for the survey myself. Its a lot cheaper than a lawsuit. Although, as I'm thinking through it, if it is them that want a total survey, I would try to talk to them, nicely, ask them to share the cost. If they won't, explain that you don't want this to upset the balance, and therefore, at this time, will pay for the survey, but before that happens, ask for them to put into writing that they were the ones to first request the survey be done. I'm just thinking if it does go to court, there is a small possibility of getting them to pay for half the cost after the fact.
But, above all, find a good lawyer that respects your wishes to figure this out quick and nicely. You might have to pay a retainer, or you might be able to "puchase" a couple hours for them to review Wisconsin's land laws to you.
You might also want to make sure you have current contact information for the previous owner.
Oh, and this isn't small claims.
CrazyMe is obviously more knowledgeable on this subject than I am.
I would take her suggestions to heart. BTW, I was referring to recouping half the cost of the full land survey in small claims, not the land issue itself, but I would think that if you had to take the land issue to court that it's possible the cost of the survey MIGHT be included in that lawsuit. I don't know, I'm only guessing. I'll bow out now to those who actually have experience in this field.
It seems, in my limited knowledge of this, that getting the survey paid is not even the beginning of the headache in store for the OP, so it is senseless to just take the survey cost to small claims. And without the neighbors admitting they wanted the full survey done or something in writing, it would just end up being a he said/she said situation.
Anyhow, for anyone not already in this situation: if the seller tells you that the neighbors have been neglecting the property lines, have the SELLER PAY for a full survey before you finalize the sale.
You might also want to see what the city/township has on file for your property as far as surveys go. Most are usually filed with them.
As a surveyor I would never accept a partial survey.
The requirements of a Survey in Wisconsin include a Map that is your guarantee that the surveyor did his duty. http://wsls.org/Committees/AE7checklist.pdf (broken link)
The surveyor you hired appears to have violated the basic administrative code.
Uncovering iron pipes may or may not actualy indicate a property line location. I've uncovered an iron pipe that looked good and had been used as a property corner but later discovered one of the the land owner's plunked it in himself where he felt it should be. Once I measured to adjacent property corners I discovered is location off about 8'.
The "Survey" includes not only the location of the corners but documentation indicating the evidence used to establish the boundary. The map is then recorded at the county surveyor's office, making it a public document.
You should be prepared to pay for the survey yourself since it benefits you the most.
Your case is not unique by any means so I must advise that anyone purchasing land get a survey done first.
Once the survey is doen approach your neighbors a neighborly as possible and suggest working with them to move their occupation back to where it belongs.
I once heard an attorney suggest you go to the neighbor with some cookies and maybe a hand of dough since buying his or her cooperation is cheaper than going through court procedings and more likely to obtain the desired effect of getting back the land you purchased.
Thank you all for your reply posts, I wasn't sure if anyone would! As of yesterday the survey stakes are in and we are waiting for the map. I think what we are going to do once we receive the map & it is recorded into Pierce County, is to send a reply letter to the neighbors. (NOTE: We have EVERYTHING in writing, including THEIR request for a full survey & map!) We are going to tell them that since they requested the survey, and since it benefits them by marking 3 corners of their property, it is only fair that they pay for half the survey cost. Assuming they reply in the same fashion they did earlier (a letter saying NO), we will file a claim in Pierce Co. court to recoup the cost that way. The facts are on our side, and so is a recent Pierce Co. court case... someone was in the same position we were and sued the neighbors and won. They actually had a charge of trespassing included in the claim & won back about $2300.
Again, thank you ALL for posting. I will keep you all informed of what happens!
Thank you all for your reply posts, I wasn't sure if anyone would! As of yesterday the survey stakes are in and we are waiting for the map. I think what we are going to do once we receive the map & it is recorded into Pierce County, is to send a reply letter to the neighbors. (NOTE: We have EVERYTHING in writing, including THEIR request for a full survey & map!) We are going to tell them that since they requested the survey, and since it benefits them by marking 3 corners of their property, it is only fair that they pay for half the survey cost. Assuming they reply in the same fashion they did earlier (a letter saying NO), we will file a claim in Pierce Co. court to recoup the cost that way. The facts are on our side, and so is a recent Pierce Co. court case... someone was in the same position we were and sued the neighbors and won. They actually had a charge of trespassing included in the claim & won back about $2300.
Again, thank you ALL for posting. I will keep you all informed of what happens!
Good Luck!
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sharing survey costs
