leaving wisconsin survey (Milwaukee: school closings, closing, to live)

[Drover]

Originally Posted by NicePolishBoy

Anybody here recently lived in Pittsburgh, Penn? Thoughts?

I lived there in 1998 through 1999 and I have been back to visit several times since. I thoroughly enjoyed my time there, but I would still only give it a luke-warm recommendation. The major issue with Pittsburgh is that its future is uncertain. And I'm not just talking about the city, but the whole metropolitan area. It has experienced practically zero population growth in the last 40 years; that in a time when our nation's population has increased by a third. So it hasn't even kept up with the general population.

My ex and I liked Pittsburgh enough that we tried to stay. But we couldn't find jobs that paid enough to make it worth staying. That's reflective of the job market there. It's not awful but it's not great either. Even in the best of economic times, Pittsburgh is not the kind of place where you can waltz into town and get a job a couple weeks later. It takes a lot of work to find a decent paying job there. The region simply never recovered from the collapse of the domestic steel industry in the late 70s/early 80s.

This collapse set up a strange cultural atmosphere in Pittsburgh: when the jobs left, those who had initiative ambition left with them. This left behind a high concentration of people who are risk-averse and are definitely not "go-getter" types and there tends to be skepticism of those who are go-getters. A lot of these people have basically been waiting around for high-paying union manufacturing jobs to come back ever since they left, and are becoming increasingly bitter about the fact that they haven't. So in summary, they don't like things the way they are, but they're to risk-averse to do anything about it and suspicious of anyone who tries to change the status quo. It's like they shout, "This place sucks!" with one breath, and then shout "But don't change it!" with the very next breath.

The city itself has lots of patches of decay, plus a few neighborhoods that look decayed to the core but are actually quite safe and stable. IMO it's a lot more interesting than Milwaukee. It has more historic charm and it's very hilly -- the city is basically built in the Appalachian foothills. The place definitely has a lot of character.

The politics there is old-school blue-collar Democrat, but maybe there's some hope for change with some young blood; particularly, Pittsburgh's current mayor is 29 years old.

Finally, the housing stock is incredibly cheap. There's a lot of solid stock that needs updating, but you can find a 2,000sqft restored turn-of-the-century 4 to 5 bedroom house for under 200 grand in a very safe neighborhood. If you can deal with being on the outskirts of the city, there are some neighborhoods where you could find such a home for a little over, or maybe even a little under, 100 grand. Just understand you're not going to make a lot of money on appreciation on your property there unless you get lucky and your neighborhood hits a hot streak.

In short, it's a nice city with some clear benefits and drawbacks. If I have a plum job waiting for me in Pittsburgh when I graduate, I'll take it and I'll have little discomfort about settling in Pittsburgh. But I wouldn't move back there on my own initiative until that place gets its act together a little more.

[Milwaukee City]

I love Milwaukee and really don't care about what the rest of the state has to offer(I'm a city guy).
BUT....for warmer climate I would leave tonight, I keep my house very warm and I really hate winter and I can't believe people actually like winter and no day light? Below 65 is cold. I would love to live in south florida so If I ever can convince the wife....were gone right down to Florida or Cali.

[reynaniteraven]

I grew up in Wisconsin (around WI Dells area) left due to military lived in Italy, Japan, MO, NM, Utah, TN, and WA.

Went back to WI early 2000s, left because I just couldnt take another year of negative degree winters and no snow (as a kid WI had TONS of snow those 4 years we were living in WI we had bitter cold winters with very little snow. Years 2002-2005/2006.)

Of course last year WI had an "old fashioned WI winter" I missed it. :-(

We are currently living in Northern Seattle, WA area. It is VERY beautiful here..ocean on one side, Cascade Mountains on the other and very mild weather (average Temps in summer is mid 70s and in winter mid 40s low 50s).

However....the cost of living is through the roof and all my family is in WI/MN area..it gets tough to be so far away from family and each holiday season I miss family more and more.

Cost of living here...where Im at...average 3 bedroom 2 bath home ranges from 450,000.00 to 600,000.00. These homes arent what you would think that price would give you for a home.

One home we looked at, it was on a very small lot (if you looked out one window you would feel like you could touch your neighbor's house by a mere reach of your arm.

This home was built in 1952 it was 1160 sq ft with a small partial fenced yard in a cul de sac. It originally was a two bedroom but the owners converted it into a 3 bedroom and built on a deck. It has one bathroom and a carport big enough to fit one car.

It is listed at 300,000.00 and under the listing in big red letters "REDUCTION IN PRICE" I guess it was originally listed at 330,000.00.

A home like that in WI may go for around 100K to at most 150K.

Gas at a no name cheep gas place goes for $1.92 per gallon for the low grade gas.

When we moved here I was paying 71.00 a month for full coverage car insurance on my base modle chevy cavalier and renters insurance. When I moved here for the SAME coverage my insurance went from 71.00 a month in WI to 143.00 a month in WA.

I asked why so high...the insurance carrier said "If you look around you, there are lots of BMW, Mercedes, and other high priced luxury cars driving around...something you wouldn't see in the Midwest. So our rates are higher."

I said "Then make the owners of these high priced cars pay for their coverage..not me."

The scary thing, my and my husbands driving records are PERFECT. We have never ever had any accident or ticket...never. We get the discount for having two policies on our insurance (renters and car insurance). We have been with our insurance company for going on 6 years now (we had them in WI and in WA.)

To rent a 3 bedroom 2 bath 1100 sq ft apartment in a so so neighborhood of a subburb in WA is 1200-1300 a month. To get to a nicer area and a safer area your looking at 1400-2000 a month and that isnt counting anything extra like a covered parking spot or a garage...those are extra.

A covered parking spot will cost you anywhere from 25 to 50 extra a month and a garage will cost 100-130 extra a month (depending on what apartment complexes your looking at.)

Ive been thinking more and more of returning to WI. Even though Ive lived in WA for 3+ years when I talk about WI i still call it home. I will always say things like "back home...." etc

Plus I know WI school system is very good, the health care is VERY good (both are excellent when compared to WA schools and health care.)

in WI Id be back around family and I may actually be able to someday own a home and not just dream about it...

Im just scared if I can or cant handle the winters there..which is the reason why I left to begin with.

Ive been back and fourth living in other places all over the world and sooner or later always end up back in WI. I guess it will always be home to me.

Plus WI also has fishing and outdoors type things all year round too.

[marleneb]

If you want to go somewhere not to far but far enough, go to Missouri! The weather can get down to 30, but the taxes are so low, who cares! Home values and property taxes are around 1/2 what they are here, gas is always cheaper by about .50 a gallon and it's a beautiful state, much like Wisconsin. My best friend moved to Springfield and I am very tempted myself. I have visited and like everything I have seen. The state gives nothing to illegals, there is no incentive for them to stay. Most of the workers on visas are from Russia. Missouri is my choice!

[susancruzs]

Reynaniteraven, I enjoyed reading your post and wouldn't you know we're having tons of snow again this year!

I moved here from NE Illinois to get away from the congestion, bad roads, crime, high utilities, lots of reasons. I really like small town living, having more snow doesn't bother me, not having to run the A/C in the summer was nice, too! I used my A/C twice last summer because of visitors who insisted!

[davit]

I'm looking at Louisville, Kentucky, far enough south to loose our December/January/February weather yet close enough that an eight hour drive gets us back to see family.

My brother's kids are both in Florida at the moment, they called recently to ask about our weather and his response was "its been so cold here I had to step into the freezer to warm up"

[tully]

Originally Posted by JoshB

Wisconsin is one of the most healthy states, why? Because many of us aren't afraid of winter.

Many aren't. And I think Wisconsiners' ability to cope with single-digits may be *slightly* better than other northern states.

But "winter hearty" is one of the most-repeated myths about WI and the midwest in general. Having lived in in the Northwest, Northeast, and Wisconsin (half my life), I can say pretty objectively that NW and NE folks are MUCH heartier WRT winter. They're in it.

The Midwesterner's mode is hibernation. November to April. Minimize outdoor contact, as much as feasably possible. (Easy to do with so much covered/attached parking.)

The NW/NE'ers mode is- more layers, duck in and out of warmth as needed, etc... but no wholesale adjustments to the year-round routine. You'll see countless people walking, working out, bar-hopping NOT in a car, etc.

Contrast that with (walkable) Eastside Milwaukee, where I jogged for an hour+ yesterday eve, in not-terrible mid-20s, and saw nary a soul.

There was a time "hearty midwesterner" had a ring of truth. I'd say 10-15 years in the past. Maybe 20. Hell, I bet you could trace the inexorable decline to post-WWII. It always amazes me to hear a Wisconsiner spewing their contempt at winter- like they were dropped down from God knows where. But very often they're born-and-raised WI.

There are actually things to do in winter, if Wisconsiners ever stopped being pansies long enough to think about it.

BTW, pansie-effect has impacted snow-shoveling. Compliance might be 75% here on the eastside. Which isn't terrible I guess. Just not like it used to be.

[davit]

Originally Posted by tully

Many aren't. And I think Wisconsiners' ability to cope with single-digits may be *slightly* better than other northern states.

As a native Wisconsonite I have learned to winter-cope via hibernation

[KateDaum]

Not here. We are in northern WI and people are outside all winter. We are always going to a skating party or something outside. I live in a rural area and walk everyday. I always run into 2-3 people on my walk that are also walking.
The schools have the kids outside for recess unless the windchill is below 0.
We spend a lot of time snow shoeing, cross country skiing and ice skating. There are always people there. Lots of people are snowmobiling this winter.
We go to a lot of winter fests and see tons of people. We went to the Badger State Games, Snowmobile Races in Eagle River and my husband did the Berkie in Hayward last winter. All 3 events had tons of particpants and lots of spectators too.
We went skiing at Granite Peak. Again, we had to wait to use the lifts. Lots of people skiing.
Maybe in the bigger cities people don't embrace the outdoors but up here they do.

[KateDaum]

I forgot to add we were in MN this past weekend. We went skiing at Lufsten and they had so many people there it was unbelievable.
We are looking forward to Badger State, Eagle River snowmobile races and the Berkie again this winter.