Should I move to WI? (Milwaukee, Madison: environment, relocate, employment)

[MidwesternBookWorm]

We moved to Wisconsin eight years ago, and cannot imagine living anywhere else. Wisconsin offers all that we want in a home, and while there are certainly things we're less than wild about, other aspects have a higher place in our list of priorities.

You know, no matter where you move, you'll find what you expect to find. If you expect to find Packer-mania and Badger insanity, you'll find it here. If you expect to find mosquitoes that'll carry you off to devour at leisure, you'll find them here, too. If you expect to find snow in the winter and sticky humidity in the summer, yep, you'll find that, too. If you expect to find northern rednecks, you'll find them coming out of the woodwork. If you expect to find people obsessing about hunting, ice-fishing and boating, you betcha you'll find that here.

But if you expect to find literate, articulate people who enjoy intelligent dialog, you'll find them, too. If you expect to find passionate political debate, you'll definitely find that, and whether you expect to encounter liberals or conservatives, you'll discover exactly what you anticipate. If you expect a lively arts scene with impressive classical ensembles, plenty of jazz and blues, lots of popular artists and performers, you'll find it. If you expect great educational institutions, you'll find them. If you expect to find friendly people, they'll be everywhere you turn.

Just like any other place in the world, what people find in Wisconsin has at least as much to do with what they bring with them as it does with what's already here. There are a lot of folks who love living here and would never live anywhere else, and there are lots more who'd give anything to live somewhere else. And the same is true of every place discussed on this forum. The key is finding the spot where you feel a sense of fit, a sense of home-coming and belonging. I suspect - heck, I KNOW - that some folks never do find that. And I feel sorry for them.

[ekg56]

Very nice post bookworm. I also believe you get into a place you live what you also bring. Attitude has a lot to do with it.
We in in MN right now and this place has Viking fever. All the stores have huge Viking displays, people are waling around wearing purple. Training camp opened so I guess people can't wait for football!

[berries]

nothing to seee here move on about yer business

[home4sale tomah, WI]

I love Wisco. I will tell you this though as I have friends from NY and have been there...you WILL experience culture shock! People in WI are so friendly, so much so that you may find this a little annoying coming from the east coast. I have friends in Colorado, where I live now, from the east coast that tell me I'm too trustworthy, giving and even to friendly to people. Where ever you go in Wisconsin you will get a smile, a wave and a warm hello from strangers on the street. The best part of Wisconsin however, and what I miss most, is the cheese. You can find cheese shops through out the entire state serving up the finest cheese the great state of Wisconsin has to offer. Also as a side note you will officially have to become a Packer fan upon moving into the state. I have heard that state patrol officers actually stop cars with out or state license plates and search and seize all none related Packer materials.

All kidding aside Wisconsin is truly an amazing state and I can't wait to return there someday.

[GSXR]

Before I lived anywhere else and traveled more extensively, I too would have been one of the big Wisconsin supporters in this thread. I am 31 and have lived within this state for about 28 of those years. I grew up in a small city in central WI, went to college in the Fox Valley area, lived in northern WI for a year, and have now lived in Madison for 3 years. So, I can speak about the place based on various types of life/living here in WI.

Now having been to many other places in the country for extensive periods, and having lived in both the south and spent A LOT of time in the Pacific Northwest, I can say without a doubt that Wisconsin, and the entire Midwest, is really lacking in a lot of areas.

Madison is incredibly overpriced when comparing the cost of living to job availability and number of high-paying jobs. Without the University and the 3 hospitals, there is no way the cost of living could be sustained. I work for the University of WI system and similar jobs to mine & lower jobs considerable to mine pay an average of $5000-$12000 more per year in the Pacific Northwest, and there are more jobs available in those areas as well. The cost of living in Madison is not much less than it is in Seattle, and Seattle has a hell of a lot more to offer in terms of culture, diversity, arts& entertainment, recreation, and aesthetic beauty.

I currently pay almost $1000/mo. to rent a small 2-bedroom "townhouse" on the east side. I could pay that much in Seattle or Portland and make $10,000 more per year doing a lesser job than I do now.

Madison is ok, but it really is more hype than substance. The progresssive, forward-thinking tag that it gets is more smoke and mirrors than it is actuality. And, leave the perimeter of Dane County and you will find the rest of the state to be extremely conservative on the whole. And yes, if you love church and beer, you will not be disappointed.

For all those who said the roads were good, have you lived anywhere outside of the Midwest, because the roads in WI, Michigan, and IL are absolute garbage. The freezing and thawing each year wreaks havoc and each spring/summer/fall most areas are littered with giant orange construction barrels. After living in Washington and Georgia, the roads in WI are like friggin' oxcart paths.

I have more to say, but need to pause until I have time to continue....

[escapetacoma]

Originally Posted by GSXR

For all those who said the roads were good, have you lived anywhere outside of the Midwest, because the roads in WI, Michigan, and IL are absolute garbage. The freezing and thawing each year wreaks havoc and each spring/summer/fall most areas are littered with giant orange construction barrels. After living in Washington and Georgia, the roads in WI are like friggin' oxcart paths.

Strange. I lived in Washington State for all but 3 of the last 40 years and the roads here in Wisconsin are miles better than the ones on the I-5 corridor over there.

Washington, and Seattle in particular, has it's good points and there are things that I miss - just not that much. This time of year I'll admit to particularly missing the Revels, but the Dicken's Christmas fest in Ripon was a lot more fun than anything else the I'd found associated with Christmas back there (the Pacific Northwest Ballet's Nutcracker is one of the most overhyped productions of anything that I've ever seen.)

As for affordable housing, the last I heard Seattle's median home prices were just about to crest $500,000. Nothing I've seen for Madison shows it about about $260,000. Of course you can live outside of Seattle and commute in, as long as you're willing to give up a largish chunk of your life to sit in a car - horrendous traffic is pretty much a given everywhere between Everett and Olympia.

Of course you wouldn't have all of that traffic, or such sky high housing prices, if there weren't compensations for living there. The combination of the weather, high cost of living, traffic and very closed off people, though, overrode all of those compensations for me and my wife. I hope that you find somewhere that you enjoy as much as we're enjoying it here.

[KateDaum]

We have also lived in a number of states. I don't find the roads here any worse then any state that has extended periods of cold or snow.
We have found the price of houses lower then out east and the taxes are less. We don't drink but we do attend church. And we found that where we came from was also a small town. Bored high school kids=drinking out there. Here we find that the kids seem to be more involved with school or youth groups. My daughter has gone to a party but the parents were home and they had a bonfire. Since I am a nurse and I have seen what happens when you mix alcohol with driving I am a stickler about that and my kids know that.

[AliceInWonderland]

I grew up in Northern Wisconsin. I am currently finishing up my masters in education in Chicago. I have lived in the Chicagoland area for 9 years. Some people here are saying locals are not friendly to *outsiders*. This is true. But you also have to realize the reasons behind the sense of un-friendlyness. Year after year tourists (yes, mainly from the Chicagoland area) come up north and treat the locals and the area poorly. Most are rude, condescending and generally thoughtless. Many tourists forget they are guests and should act as such. Being rude because there is some attitude of entitlement because they are spending money in the area is not the way to be a guest. The reactions of the locals to this rudeness unfortunately spills over to any outsider.

Yes, things are slower, backwards (whatever that means), colder etc... But rural Wisconsin is NOT the big city. The people don't care whether or not the latest pop singer was out parting with her friends. They don't care about clothes, fashions or what is the latest, greatest anything. They care about their friends, family, and community. Keep this in mind and things will go smoothly for you.

[GSXR]

Originally Posted by escapetacoma

Strange. I lived in Washington State for all but 3 of the last 40 years and the roads here in Wisconsin are miles better than the ones on the I-5 corridor over there...

My husband and I ride motorcycles and have ridden thousands and thousands of miles both in WI and all over the south and west, and the Midwest, by far, as the worst roads in the country. Wisconsin, on the whole, has better roads than much of Illinois, and certainly Michigan (with the Detroit area being the worst), but when you compare them to the glass-like pavement of other areas, I can't see how people can rate them as good. Every year we battle pothole after pothole, filled in with clumps of gravel and sealer, and you just don't find that in the PNW and where we've spent a lot of riding time in GA/NC/TN.

As for Washington and the Seattle area, Poulsbo/Bainbridge/Silverdale are all very nice areas with just a 30 minute ferry ride to Seattle. You can sleep or read, and avoid the highway traffic.

I used to think Wisconsin was beautiful. Then I spent extensive time in the PNW and the Smokey Mts/Blue Ridge Mts. areas and I realized that giant majestic trees and mountains are a heck of a lot beautiful to me than hundreds of miles of farmfields.

We bag on IL, but almost the entire southern half of our state is just as flat and uninspiring. I think the western part of the state, where there are some bluffs, and along the Mississippi River, are quite beautiful. Same with Devil's Lake and some of the cities along Lake Michigan (and the Kettles). But, save for some very nice pockets of beauty, the state is virtually flat, with nothing but soybean fields and corn fields. Not to mention the summerlong stench of manure as soon as you get near the outside of almost any city.

I fell in love with the Olympic Mts., Mt Rainier, the Puget Sound, and the larger than life trees that tower over you. Coming back to Wisconsin was a slap of reality for me. It wasn't as beautiful as I claimed it was before I'd seen other places.

My husband has lived in Washington, Atlanta, north Georgia, New York, Texas, Detroit, Alaska, Denmark, Boston, etc. and he has been miserable here in Wisconsin. Prior to moving here he had spent 3 years in Atlanta and northern Georgia along Lake Lanier. He does not see the appeal. Last time I checked we were the 5th highest taxed state in the nation, we were in the top 5 in gas prices, businesses don't take root here or stay here because the cost of doing business is too high, the job market is nothing to get excited about, and the weather really isn't all that great either.

It really is all a matter of personal perspective and preference.

I see that you live in Waupun. For me, I could never live there, but that's just me.

We are currently looking at the Denver area or a move back to Washington. All of my family is here in Wisconsin, which has kept me coming back, but I am now ready to make the leap for good, as we just have not been happy here. I will miss my job and health insurance and retirement benefits working for the University (state employee) for the last 4 years, but I can do without the excessive costs with the low return (ie. it just doesn't do it for me here).

[escapetacoma]

Originally Posted by GSXR

Every year we battle pothole after pothole, filled in with clumps of gravel and sealer, and you just don't find that in the PNW and where we've spent a lot of riding time in GA/NC/TN.

I'll reiterate - the roads around the Puget Sound area are not good, compared to the ones that I've seen in Wisconsin or just about anywhere else. I've logged thousands and thousands of miles on them by motorcycle, bicycle and car all around the sound. The chipseal that they use for some of the more rural roads will buzz your fillings free and make your hands numb on a motorcycle (it's many times worse at speed on a bicycle!) When they do patch a road the patch rarely holds because it's usually applied to wet pavement, which means that it does nothing but add chunks of asphalt to the mix.

As for Washington and the Seattle area, Poulsbo/Bainbridge/Silverdale are all very nice areas with just a 30 minute ferry ride to Seattle. You can sleep or read, and avoid the highway traffic.

Have you actually lived over on the Peninsula??? People who do generally don't find it quite that romantic. If you're driving onto the ferry you have to add time waiting in line to make sure that you catch the boat that you want (and we won't even mention driving away from the ferry terminal in Seattle ) Agreed about the time for the Bainbridge crossing, but remember that a lot of other people want to do the same (the Bremerton crossing takes twice as long) so the roads through Winslow are a complete waste around ferry time. Funny, I was just talking to my boss last week about this as he lived on Bainbridge for 10 years. The only island that I'd even consider living on over there is Vashon, which has a *LOT* going for it!

I used to think Wisconsin was beautiful. Then I spent extensive time in the PNW and the Smokey Mts/Blue Ridge Mts. areas and I realized that giant majestic trees and mountains are a heck of a lot beautiful to me than hundreds of miles of farmfields.

Yep. The trees weren't hard to leave, Mt. Rainier was hard to leave, even if it's not visible all that frequently from the city 50 miles away that was named for it. The Olympics, on the rare times that they're visible, were beautiful. If you want some majestic trees over there visit The Grove of the Patriarchs in Mt Rainier park.

Last time I checked we were the 5th highest taxed state in the nation, we were in the top 5 in gas prices, businesses don't take root here or stay here because the cost of doing business is too high, the job market is nothing to get excited about, and the weather really isn't all that great either.

I've seen all of the tax rate stuff as well, though the few that I've seen that look at total tax burden move Wisconsin further down the line (below Washington for starters - probably the only advantage of Wisconsin's tax structure is that it reduces the Fed's cut more than Washington's.) I don't think that there's any doubt that Wisconsin's taxes are serious disincentive to business, but watch out for Washington here as well - it's been the talk of the legislature for several years now

Honestly, if I could have continued to handle the 8 months of gloom in Western Washington we'd have never moved - the area does have a lot going for it. OTOH, we would never have been able to afford a house as nice as the one that we own now, groceries were more expensive every month (caveat - there was a substantially better variety of produce available in Tacoma), traffic was a nightmare and the roads were a series of potholes held together by short stretches of pavement (Seattle's current mayor has been trying to deal with this - it was one of his big campaign promises - but it's not working.) No place is perfect, it's all about where you place your priorities.