Should I move to WI? (Milwaukee, Madison: middle-class, how much, house prices)

[TaraMoon]

Some of the people who disagreed with my initial post on page 6 need to reread it. I did not say that people are housebound for eight months a year. I said if people can not tolerate extreme cold and extreme heat and humidity they will be housebound for many months of the year, which is true. I didn't say that most people in Wisconsin aren't nice. I said most people are close-minded. Yes, that's true of most rural and small town people everywhere. I was correct in pointing out that people not raised here will likely not be accepted. Incidentally, I grew up here, but I've also lived elsewhere. The person who inquired about moving to Wisconsin probably came to this board to learn the truth rather than hear tourist board propaganda. Wisconsin has some good qualities, but it also has some negative ones. As for the high taxes going to pay for good things, that's true. But, the reality is that the wages are too low considering how high the taxes are.

[politikally]

Originally Posted by TaraMoon

Wisconsin is very beautiful, but unless you love winter sports and very cold weather, you'll be housebound many months of the year. The summers are swelteringly hot and humid and mosquito-filled. Lyme disease carrying ticks make hiking in the woods somewhat risky. In the fall, you risk your life hiking in woods filled with gun nuts who shoot anything that moves. Salaries are low, in fact the lowest in the entire Midwest, and property taxes are high.

Wow. You must not get out much!!

1) I know plenty of people in Wisconsin who don't participate in winter sports and still get out of the house plenty in the winter.

2) Hiking in the woods isn't risky... LOL. I've been hiking and hunting in the woods all my life. You can GREATLY reduce your chances of being bitten by just being careful and wearing the right types of clothing. Plus even if you ARE bitten if you quickly remove the tick the chances of getting Lyme disease while possible is slight if you know what you are doing.

3)The woods are not filled with gun nuts. They're filled with hunters who respect the environment, the surroundings, and the people around them. While I will admit there are isolated incidents in the woods, they are generally perpetrated by severly disturbed people who are 9 times out of 10 not from Wisconsin. I've hunted in the woods all my life. I've never been shot, and outside of one guy having a gun go off which he dropped - I haven't heard of any problems. Plus almost all hunters in Wisconsin are required to take safety training courses before they're even allowed to hunt. We know what we're doing!

4) Summers in the northern latitudes of Wisconsin are very tolerable with an average temperature of 74 in the summer (weather channel). While it can get humid, the summers are far from intolerable.

5) Yes salaries are low, but so is the cost of living. If you chart average salary out with average cost of living for Wisconsin you'll find the wages comprable to nearly any other city.

6) Yes, property taxes are the high side. However that's how the state government funds projects in this state. The income taxes and sales taxes are less than in many states. All said in done I don't think the tax burden in totality is any worse than anywhere else.

7) Not being accepted into a community probably has less to do with the community and more to do with the person who wishes to be accepted. I don't know your particular situation, but it sounds like you've been involved in an isolated incident, which may have more to do with your own personal problems than any community. (No offense intended here I'm just saying)

8) As for culture and diversity... there's plenty outside of Madison. Many people in the north still practice their culture's activities. I.e. most of us are Norse or German, and thus we have Octoberfest and eat Lutefisk We also Hunt, Fish, travel, spending time with our kids and enjoy a nice day curling up with a book. There's plenty of culture in Wisconsin. My guess is there's not the "big city" culture you are used to in the state (i.e. Artsy stuff, gay pride parades, and social activism). Thus if you are looking for the "big city" culture, then yes, Madison is your town, but don't go claiming we don't have culture and diversity, because we do. We just subscribe to your particular brand of culture and diversity, and if you truly want to be "diverse" you'd be willing to accept that.

9) And finally, the ONLY thing I agree with you about - We love our Packers. That's nothing to be ashamed of.


*** There was alot more to the original quoted post, see page 6 for the full thing. I cut it because it was too big to repost on this board.

[midwesterner]

My guess is that eastern Wisconsin cities like Sheboygan, Fond du Lac, Oshkosh, Green Bay and Manitowoc will be too large a shock for a New Yorker. Few decent restaurants, unfriendly natives. Transplants to these medium sized communities on the eastern side of Wisconsin have to be-friend each other because the locals won't. After 25 years in the area someone told me that unless I lived here 40 years I woundn't really count as a local (and he was only half kidding). If you must, choose Appleton in that area. Instead, try St. Paul as a city location, or Madison for a great vibrant medium sized community. One great thing is that (excluding Milwaukee, Racine, Kenosha and Janeville/Beloit areas) the whole state of Wisconsin is beautiful. Very untouched natural scenery that is easily acessible for hiking, cross country skiing, water use and much more. Considerably more attractive across the whole state than say western Minnesota, most of Iowa, Indiana, etc. Good luck.

[politikally]

Originally Posted by midwesterner

My guess is that eastern Wisconsin cities like Sheboygan, Fond du Lac, Oshkosh, Green Bay and Manitowoc will be too large a shock for a New Yorker. Few decent restaurants, unfriendly natives. Transplants to these medium sized communities on the eastern side of Wisconsin have to be-friend each other because the locals won't. After 25 years in the area someone told me that unless I lived here 40 years I woundn't really count as a local (and he was only half kidding).

I think you've got some personal problems, and I highly doubt that any of your troubles making friends has anything to do with the community. Your isolated experiences in the region are in no way a proper reflection of the area.

Sorry, but I just don't think you know what you're talking about.

[proud wisconsinite]

Originally Posted by midwesterner

My guess is that eastern Wisconsin cities like Sheboygan, Fond du Lac, Oshkosh, Green Bay and Manitowoc will be too large a shock for a New Yorker. Few decent restaurants, unfriendly natives. Transplants to these medium sized communities on the eastern side of Wisconsin have to be-friend each other because the locals won't.

Again, another person that clearly is making a "guess" and not an educated one. There are a few on this thread giving areas like Fond du Lac, Sheboygan, Oshkosh, etc. a bad name and it's undeserved. Someone has an isolated incident of being told off by a native, likely because of a personality conflict or something along those lines, and suddenly all natives are unfriendly. Sorry, but that's not correct at all! I've never even been aware of whether people I know are native or not, perhaps your attitude towards being here, rather than wherever you are from, is giving others the impression you don't want to be here, don't think highly of the area, the people, etc....certainly if I got that impression from someone I wouldn't feel too great about befriending them either.

I think the issues that people like midwesterner, fondyhater, taramoon and others have had is more due to personal issues rather than the locals/natives. (no offense intended)

[Drover]

Originally Posted by D-res

typical madison area ignorance at it's best folks. Dont ever consider that madison area, unless stuck up "Madison is better than every in the universe" type people are a big plus for you. Don't get me wrong. I love Madison in many respects, but sometimes the arrogance of the people living there gets a little annoying.

Sorry to say, the guy is on target. Milwaukee has its nice areas... but hell, even Detroit and New Orleans do too. But by in large, Milwaukee is a nasty little place. I lived in Pittsburgh and I found that even that town is nicer than Milwaukee.

And let me save you the trouble of thrashing Chicago: yes, most of Chicago sucks too. But the nice parts are VERY nice and make up for it. Milwaukee doesn't quite strike the same balance.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by antipode12

pardon me for chuckling, but what do "procupine problems" entail, exactly?

Primarily they entail your dog coming in from the yard with a snout full of quills. That's a hefty vet bill right there.

Originally Posted by antipode12

Impressions: I think I'd like Madison, but it seems isolated.

Not at all. I guess you could say Madison is isolated in the strict sense that it's a small-to-medium-sized city surrounded by one ring of suburbs and then corn. But three factors to consider: a) it is just over an hour from Milwaukee proper; b) just over 2 hours from Chicago proper; c) Madison is a surprisingly urbane for a city its size. That's not to say you're going to confuse it with mid-town Manhattan, but you probably also won't have a sense that you need to get away for a dose of "real" civilization nearly as often as you would in truly isolated Big Ten cities like, say, Champaign IL or State College PA.

Originally Posted by antipode12

Concerns: My girlfriend and I are both teachers. Can we afford it there? How do other teachers fare? How expensive is it? We both have a car with those bills, will both need to pay our rent, and have the usual bills -- utilities, cable, student loans, groceries, etc. Nothing extravagant. We'd really like to start saving for a retirement fund, though. What do you folks think?

The cost of living in Madison and the worthwhile areas in/around Milwaukee might be a little higher than you'd expect for the Midwest, especially due to property taxes. But they'll d@mn-sure be a piece of cake compared to Long Island.

[dtrelka]

You can't beat Sturgeon Bay. Friendly people and almost non-existent crime. I've been around the world and it's tough to beat this place. Check out our website www.sturgeonbaypolice.com; (broken link))

[NotWI]

This state is expensive to live in, the taxes are awfully high. You are taxed on almost everything and we mean that. We were taxed on services, online shopping, and the utility company WE (Wisconsin Energy) is horrible! You will get a bill that has charges their people can't even explain including membership, something about cold days vs warm days and both of those are some self justifying hooey is the best we can guess? This month Dec (06) we got our electric bill with a (sit down) sixty % increase on it and we live in a building that has heat paid for as part of our HOA, but got hit with this huge increase and without notice. Both professionalism and customer service are hard to find in WI. Here are some examples: March, we bought a $4k TV at American, in the first week it was replaced (which we know could happen anywhere), in the second an element was acting up and that took calling, arguing, called a liar, talked about when they thought they had us on hold, and more. Finally it took threats of good old picketing to get swift action. In March, my partner who uses a wheelchair had done his homework and before moving here got his doctor in our prevous state to sign the printable form from the WI DOT website, to obtain a drivers license in WI. When we went to the Appleton DOT office and he went up to give the form to the "trained" counter worker, she treated him like he was an imbecile. It was humiliating. He showed the worker his active and existing licenses from two states of residence and she told him that because he uses a wheelchair and hadn't any legs that he would have to take three (3) tests. My partner then asked the counter woman why 3 tests and the other yong lady that was applying who walked with a cane didn't have to, the worker responded with because she has legs. We were furious, we contacted the WI Gov office, they blew us down to a DOT office, which they conceeded the "website was in error," but said nothing of the obvious discrimination shown towards various disabilities. We contacted the area Cong. Mark Green and his involvement was to call the same DOT office putting out the bad information and after their conversation concluded that the DOT policy was not in error. We reached down low at this point and even thought to seek help from the WI ACLU in Milwaukee and they were helpful enough to say that "however warranted this case would be, they did not have the resources to become involved at this time." Which we figured meant they were busy helping the group that protests at US Military funerals and that was somehow way more immportant then disabled being treated like second class citizens in a state (1 of 11) that readily gives out drivers license to illegal immigrants. We need to rephrase our statement to read "being treated with less respect then an illegal alien!" We bought our home March (06) and paid $111k, however the assessor sent a tax statement to us for $124,800 and we call the number to ID the paperwork as incorrect. If we want to challenge the amounts we have to write a letter and it will probably be denied, so despite us paying only $111,300k (on record) we have to pay taxes on $124 amount because that was the "average" of sales in our area. This is of course with no recourse and if we're lucky next year (07) they say, we maybe back to a tax for what we actually purchased the place for after they "review" sales. Things you need to know if you're disabled and decide small town life in WI is "what you're dreaming of?" You can expect to be stared at, simplest things like Disabled Parking (which is violated everywhere) when violated at many businesses and civic areas we have been told this variety of responses when we point it out to the managers or city people: "it's not our policy to call the police for this," and "we can send someone out, but if they leave you may need to give a report and may have to testify under oath." Learning that police assitance may not be an expected deterrent, we have also been told by people abusing Disabled Parking "to shut the f**k up," and flipped off. The lady who told us to "shut the f**k up" was a RN at the local Appleton Medical Center, which of course makes us think if this is how health care workers treat public citizens, is this somewhere we really want to be? Remember this, WI is the same state back in 2004 that revoked the title of Miss Wheelchair (yes there is such an award) from a school teacher with MD because she was still able to walk around in the classroom with her students. Apparently there is no middle ground with the mentality up here folks. One last Disabled story to share. In 2004, a Menasha, story made press of a young man in a wheelchair that had been ticketed for wheeling his chair on the streets during Winter (snow) months and he tried to explain that he wasn't able to use the sidewalks because the curb cuts weren't visable for access. He had to pay the ticket!

[NY4eva]

As someone who moved here (to be with my now husband), I can tell you that if you have family back East, please reconsider. While Wisconsin (at least Madison) is a wonderful place to live, it's soooo far to drive back East. We just started our family, and I am currently miserable. I have been beggin my husband to reconsider a job search back East so we can be closer. Also, if you love the ocean, you will not want to live here... :-(