Hooray....Smoking Ban Compromise Reached! (costs, marketplace, design)

[Capt. Dan]

I think Tennessee used a common sense approach to this issue. And it has worked out quite nicely. If you are a business that people under 21 CANT go into, then smoking is allowed. So if you dont want to be around smokers but want a beer, go to Applebees,Outback or Logans Roadhouse and sit at thier bar. Just stay out of the "beer joints" and you'll be fine. I personally think that we are headed down a slippery slope when the Government can tell a private business owner what they can and cant do inside of a business they have worked hard to develop. Where will they stick thier nose next? Tell you that you cant sell foods with over a certain amount of sodium because its unhealthy? I'm sure it isnt just me that thinks once you let the government in to your life, they arent quick to leave.

[quijote]

Originally Posted by Capt. Dan

I think Tennessee used a common sense approach to this issue. And it has worked out quite nicely. If you are a business that people under 21 CANT go into, then smoking is allowed. So if you dont want to be around smokers but want a beer, go to Applebees,Outback or Logans Roadhouse and sit at thier bar. Just stay out of the "beer joints" and you'll be fine. I personally think that we are headed down a slippery slope when the Government can tell a private business owner what they can and cant do inside of a business they have worked hard to develop. Where will they stick thier nose next? Tell you that you cant sell foods with over a certain amount of sodium because its unhealthy? I'm sure it isnt just me that thinks once you let the government in to your life, they arent quick to leave.

Does this mean I can release sulfur dioxide and other toxic substances into Tennessee bars, for my own enjoyment? Or perhaps even something less toxic, such as mace, pepper spray, and tear gas? I wonder how I would be treated if I entered the bar with several pounds of rotting fish? I'd hate to think that only cigarette smoke is given a pass.

[Capt. Dan]

Originally Posted by quijote

Does this mean I can release sulfur dioxide and other toxic substances into Tennessee bars, for my own enjoyment? Or perhaps even something less toxic, such as mace, pepper spray, and tear gas? I wonder how I would be treated if I entered the bar with several pounds of rotting fish? I'd hate to think that only cigarette smoke is given a pass.

You conveniently forget your other option--stay out of places that allow smoking. People with "better than thou attitudes" usually feel more comfortable in places other than a common mans beer joint. Ah! Nothing like an ice cold Leinies and a Marlboro!

[quijote]

Originally Posted by Capt. Dan

You conveniently forget your other option--stay out of places that allow smoking.

Or perhaps people can stay out of places where I choose to unleash sulphur dioxide, pepper spray, and dead fish.

People with "better than thou attitudes"

....Including many smokers and their supporters....

usually feel more comfortable in places other than a common mans beer joint. Ah! Nothing like an ice cold Leinies and a Marlboro!

If you're in Wisconsin, light up, 'cause you've got a little over a year left to poison yourself and everyone around you in publicly accessible, indoor places.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by Capt. Dan

I think Tennessee used a common sense approach to this issue. And it has worked out quite nicely. If you are a business that people under 21 CANT go into, then smoking is allowed. So if you dont want to be around smokers but want a beer, go to Applebees,Outback or Logans Roadhouse and sit at thier bar. Just stay out of the "beer joints" and you'll be fine. I personally think that we are headed down a slippery slope when the Government can tell a private business owner what they can and cant do inside of a business they have worked hard to develop. Where will they stick thier nose next? Tell you that you cant sell foods with over a certain amount of sodium because its unhealthy? I'm sure it isnt just me that thinks once you let the government in to your life, they arent quick to leave.

See, now that's actual compromise, not "all or nothing" mislabeled as compromise.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by quijote

Does this mean I can release sulfur dioxide and other toxic substances into Tennessee bars, for my own enjoyment? Or perhaps even something less toxic, such as mace, pepper spray, and tear gas? I wonder how I would be treated if I entered the bar with several pounds of rotting fish? I'd hate to think that only cigarette smoke is given a pass.

If you can find a bar proprietor who will let you release mace or pepper spray or bring in a rotting fish and patrons have constructive notice of this possibility, I don't see why not. So go right ahead.

[quijote]

Originally Posted by Drover

If you can find a bar proprietor who will let you release mace or pepper spray or bring in a rotting fish and patrons have constructive notice of this possibility, I don't see why not. So go right ahead.

I shouldn't have to ask first; it's my right to foul up the air around me, right? The bar owner should make allowances for my toxic and smelly stuff, right alongside the cig smoke; if the patrons don't like it, they should go elsewhere. And who cares about the workers--they can put up with the stench and endure the health risk, or look for another job.

But seriously.... Should bar proprietors really have the right to poison their staff and customers?

[Drover]

Originally Posted by quijote

I shouldn't have to ask first; it's my right to foul up the air around me, right? The bar owner should make allowances for my toxic and smelly stuff, right alongside the cig smoke; if the patrons don't like it, they should go elsewhere. And who cares about the workers--they can put up with the stench and endure the health risk, or look for another job.

But seriously.... Should bar proprietors really have the right to poison their staff and customers?

Just as smokers don't have a right to smoke in an establishment that has chosen to ban smoking, you don't have a right to "foul up the air around you" in a way the proprietor of the establishment does not allow. Ambiance is the proprietor's prerogative, and that should be obvious to anyone who isn't trying to manufacture silly hypothetical scenarios. But if you can find a bar owner who says it's hunky-dory to bring in dead fish, well then, bring in dead fish. Go ahead.

And you think bars just have machines that pour smoke into the room or something? The customers and frequently the staff are the ones doing the so-called "poisoning" so they have evidently accepted that "right."

[QwertyFarmer]

I find it interesting that the discussion keeps focusing on the smoker and how the bar is meant for the smoker. The bars are only filled with smokers and subsequent smoke due to a very successful campaign by the tobacco industry over the course of the last 50 plus years to encourage individuals to light up as often as possible. Ideas like smoking is cool, cowboys smoke, pool hustlers smoke, James Dean smoked. All of these are false idols of self importance packed into a tiny overpriced tube of poisonous tobacco.

I used to smoke, I quit due to a discovery of having an allergy to the second hand smoke, which has become worse over the years. I too am an avid pool player, last I checked Applebees, TGI Fridays, and Chile's have no pool tables. I also enjoy socializing with what a previous comment called the common man. I enjoy the atmosphere of the local bar over that of a finer establishment. I do not however enjoy or appreciate the extreme conditions of an average local bar that allows smoking.

I think the argument over the government control and how the rights of the business owner are being stripped is ridiculous. Not one bar that I know of or have ever heard of opened its doors with the business plan of attracting smokers. 99% of these establishments opened their doors with the intent to create a social atmosphere and serve alcohol. To exclude those of us who do not smoke is the most elitist act of all.

I encourage those of you who smoke to invite your other smoker friends over to each others house and hot box the h_e_l_l out of it, then when finished come on down to the bar and I will buy you a beer.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by QwertyFarmer

I think the argument over the government control and how the rights of the business owner are being stripped is ridiculous. Not one bar that I know of or have ever heard of opened its doors with the business plan of attracting smokers. 99% of these establishments opened their doors with the intent to create a social atmosphere and serve alcohol. To exclude those of us who do not smoke is the most elitist act of all.

I've been pubcrawling for nearly 15 years now. I've been in bars from Kansas to Connecticut. I have never been to a bar that excludes non-smokers. I've never even heard of such a thing.

Avid pool player? Get your own table.