I've had enough!!!! (Milwaukee, Oconomowoc, Jackson: middle-class, house prices, neighborhood)

[Turpentine]

Hi all- Just a rant/vent. I've lived in suburban Milwaukee most of my life , and I'm wondering if others are getting as frustrated with the area as I am.
I love to bicycle, but can no longer take the weather. Obviously, it's cold most of the time, but to make matters worse, when it finally does warm up, you can count on 20+ mph winds, making cycling dificult, not to mention hazardous.
Then there's the social climate. Growing up here in the 70's and 80's it was nice here. you had friendly folks, plenty of woods and farmland teeming with wildlife. Most of the woods and farms are gone now, replaced by overpriced Mc Mansions, or "luxury" housing. Most(not all) of the friendly people have been replaced by standoffish, self-centered affluent people, who drive oversized and overpriced SUV's with a cell phone glued to their ears, and their noses in the air. Where fake tans, designer clothes seem to be Government Issue, where people are judged by the car they drive, and their investment portfolios.
Just wondering if others notice this too, and if there are any places that would be an improvement that might be worth looking into. Thanks all!!!!!

[Drover]

You've just described the suburban sprawl and shallow materialism on display in virtually every metropolitan area in the U.S. that isn't part of the dying rust belt -- and ESPECIALLY in places where the weather is nice. A change of pace may be good now and then... just look very carefully and keep in mind that the grass ain't always greener on the other side. It would suck to "get away from it" only to find it all around you wherever you end up.

[Chelito23]

I agree with Drover. I think this decline in people and communities is a nationwide issue. If anything, it has happened to a lesser extent in Wisconsin than around the country. I still don't understand where all of the money for these SUVs, McMancions adn luxery housing is coming from. Nothing is targeted for first time home buyers or the lower middle class anymore.

If the cold weather has driven you crazy...then the sunbelt would be a nice change...but I agree too that those cities have colder people and less of a sense of community, not to mention the materialism magnified for X reason. Take a trip and see if you find a place you like....

[Turpentine]

thanks Drover & Chelito23!! Sometimes a different point of view helps! I'd hate to go thru all the trouble of a big move only to find out it's not any better at all.
Guess I need to do some thinking and more exploring

[nyminute]

Avoid Fort Wayne, Indiana. Milwaukee just spelled different.

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by Turpentine

Hi all- Just a rant/vent. I've lived in suburban Milwaukee most of my life , and I'm wondering if others are getting as frustrated with the area as I am.
I love to bicycle, but can no longer take the weather. Obviously, it's cold most of the time, but to make matters worse, when it finally does warm up, you can count on 20+ mph winds, making cycling dificult, not to mention hazardous.
Then there's the social climate. Growing up here in the 70's and 80's it was nice here. you had friendly folks, plenty of woods and farmland teeming with wildlife. Most of the woods and farms are gone now, replaced by overpriced Mc Mansions, or "luxury" housing. Most(not all) of the friendly people have been replaced by standoffish, self-centered affluent people, who drive oversized and overpriced SUV's with a cell phone glued to their ears, and their noses in the air. Where fake tans, designer clothes seem to be Government Issue, where people are judged by the car they drive, and their investment portfolios.
Just wondering if others notice this too, and if there are any places that would be an improvement that might be worth looking into. Thanks all!!!!!

Hey Turpentine -

I think I can relate very strongly to you. You didn't mention your age, but I am a male in my early 30s. Like you, was born, raised, and lived in the metro Milwaukee area from age 0-27. I moved to Albuquerque, NM a bit over 3-years ago for many of the same frustrations / reasons as you site.

I am an not a bicycle guy, but am an avid runner...some similarities. So I had to chuckle at your frustrations with the weather...I had many of those too. I remember doing a 5K at the Milwaukee Zoo one January, and the temperature was -3 F at the start (not factoring wind chill). I at that point noted I would never again race at a temperature lower than ~30ish...it was just nuts. I also remember one late March doing my usual Sunday long run...it was about 35 degrees, snowing rather hard, with 45+ mph wind gusts blasting right at me; I got home, turned on the Weather Channel while trying to defrost, and saw Indianapolis, only a few hours to the south, was clocking in in the 70s. I nearly tore my hair out.

Beyond the weather, I also tired of many Milwaukeeans and suburbanites' attitudes for many of the same reasons as you. I did tire quite a bit of the gruffer/more intense demeanor, the materialism, etc. While I agree with many here who have stated that this is a big problem (and even bigger in some places - you should see how bad it is in metro Phoenix or metro Dallas/Fort Worth or metro Miami...just out of control) in many other metro areas in the U.S., Milwaukee does not get a pass here (and I love MKE)...folks there really - in general / broad terms - often have fallen prey to trying to emulate the affluent Chicago suburbs, and a corresponding lifestyle. There surely is also (again, I love MKE so I am not "bashing" it) a bit of an inferiority complex rampant in many facets in the metro area. Here in Albuquerque, for instance, a rapidly growing Sunbelt city, materialsm and "attitudes" are still no where like they are in Milwaukee metro, although perhaps in 20 years or so that will (regrettably) change - surely I hope not.

So I guess first what I am saying is that I don't think your feelings or observations are all that radical. I felt most of them strongly at the latter portion of my 20s. At that point, I was desperate to get out of Milwaukee metro, and started to really almost despise the place (in a love-hate relationship sort of way).

I am also not one to say that the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. That just boils down to personal preferences and priorities. For instance, there is no way to sugar-coat it - Albuquerque (just in my case of comparison) has far better weather than Milwaukee annually. Are there occasional days that are an exception? Sure. We get crummy weather days here just like anywhere does. But yeah, if weather is by far your #1 consideration, you can obviously do better than Metro Milwaukee. Or, say you hate the property taxes in metro Milwaukee...again, no way to sugar-coat it, you can find cheaper costs of living elsewhere.

Having said all of that though...

In my 3+ years of living in Albuquerque, despite absolutely loving the city, region, and area, I have grown to miss metro Milwaukee tremendously and am actively looking very likely to move back. Not only do I have roots there and have that "it is my home" fond connection, but I have learned to TREMENDOUSLY appreciate many things about metro Milwaukee that assuredly I never did, or never would have, had I just continued to plug along living there.

Yep, the cost of living is tough. The more standoffish, arrogant attitudes of many is tough. The weather...often can be tough. However, there are so many great things about the area that I always took for granted (and now realize) that I could not list them all here...maybe I will do so in a different thread.

Now, within the last 6-months to a year, I would be very happy if I could live in Metro Milwaukee again. And it isn't because Albuquerque isn't what I thought it would be - Albuquerque is a great, great place to live. Beyond the weather, I could list 100 reasons why it is a great place to live, and I have very little bad to say about it.

But believe it or not...for all of its faults (and, like all areas, there are definite faults in Milwaukee Metro)...MKE and its 'burbs are great places to live.

Maybe, like me, it will take you eventually moving away to come to realize that, and that is okay. Even if I get back to Milwaukee next month, I will never be sorry I moved to Albuquerque (and at many times of the year, weather-wise, I am sure I will miss the sunny skies, dry air, and mild temps). And maybe if you tried somewhere, you'd never want to move back to MKE, and that is great too...then you found somewhere that was a better fit. I know after my wife and I moved down to the Southwest, we had our first two children, and that changed our outlook and perspective and priorities heavily too...sometimes life-altering events happen and change your perspective.

But if you do stay in Milwaukee metro, rest assured that your frustrations I think are relevant and not without merit. However, also rest assured that while the area doesn't necessarily thrill folks at the mention of it like maybe some places in the South or Southwest do, it has just a ton of great things going for it that you'd very likely miss when you'd be gone. I "got away" for many of the same reasons you did, and here 3+ years later am hoping to "be back" for a long time soon! And I know I am not alone...a good friend was in Phoenix for 6+ years and ended up packing up and heading to Oconomowoc and is thrilled he did.

Good luck!

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by Chelito23

I still don't understand where all of the money for these SUVs, McMancions adn luxery housing is coming from. Nothing is targeted for first time home buyers or the lower middle class anymore.

Amen.

I am as pro-capitalism / free market as anyone on the earth, so if it is working for retailers / builders, etc., then great. But I am just perplexed and amazed - sincerely - at how out-of-hand things like home prices in so many places, including metro Milwaukee, has gotten. It has gotten to the point that a decent home in the suburbs is getting - just for a regular place - to be around the $300K range. That is crazy!!! I am sorry, even with inflation, inflated wages, etc., $300K is still a price for affluent folks only...truly, that is too expensive even for a strong middle-class income. Sure, middle class folks own houses that expensive, but it truly isn't in their best financial interests if they are making a true middle class income.

I have a good friend who bought a house in Jackson, WI (small, formerly farming community, 1/2-hour north of Milwaukee) for $275K - in addition to his high WI property taxes. Now, he and his wife both work and thus far have not had kids, but I also know that in his job he isn't raking in $60K or $75K. And frankly, while I like his house and his neighborhood, etc., it just isn't in my opinion a $275K house. Here in Albuquerque (where house prices have gotten much higher over the past few years as well), I could buy a really, really nice home for $275K.

But yet, people in metro Milwaukee seem to keep buying and buying, otherwise these prices wouldn't be as bloated and inflated as they are.

My folks also live in Jackson, and they've had some nice subdivisions being built up around them. I checked out a few of the homes...really nice. Yet my dad tells me that they are not selling briskly. I find that odd, since the Milwaukee suburbs are booming, and the houses are so nice. He tells me that the prices are $350K+...OK, well now I understand why they aren't selling. Because you'd need a dual-income household where one of the incomes is an executive, lawyer, doctor, etc., to afford that pricetag.

And yes, it is worse in many other communities. Chicago and its 'burbs are outrageous in pricing, the Twin Cities area is more expensive on average than Milwaukee and its 'burbs, etc.

And again, people must be buying because the prices - in a market truly dominated by supply and demand - continue to stay high.

I guess I am just flat-out boggled though as to all of these people who can afford these prices and keep on buying. I am a mid-level professional who earns a respectable middle class income, but my wife has chosen not to work to stay home with the little ones, etc., and I can not fathom the pricing of so many of these houses!

[GreggB]

TURPENTINE----WELCOME TO THE U.S.A!!! All the negatives you mention-we have only our selfish selves to blame. Being from Milwaukee originally, I know what you are saying. I have been here in Henderson Nevada (Las Vegas) for a year now. Glaring example of materialism, horrendous urban planning, total lack of culture and sense of community, etc,etc. So many people are striving for some degree of happiness and satisfaction and believe that the answer to that is through material things. How sad, but that's the "American Way", for SO many. This country is headed for a "Wake Up Call'!!! It may be a horrific Act Of God, A unamaginable Terrosit Attack, or a total collapse of our economy. Whatever it is, maybe it will put us all on a level playing field, where respect for each other, respect for the environment, and the cessation of ignorance and arrogance will prevail.

[nyminute]

What disaster would provoke the end of the greed? I watch the series Jericho and it deals with the US after a nuclear attack wiping out most everything. Already 2 communites are at odds over wind turbines and food. GreggB may be right about a wake up call, but it will need to happen weekly. Look how fast the flag waving died after 911. Greed.

[DaBears]

I second that Turpentine (& everyone else)...all made good points... I moved from Milwaukee in 97 mainly because of the weather and have only been back 1 time...I can say I did see most of the same thing in Tampa when I was there...am now in NC...really like it here...cant say I love it but....