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Old 10-31-2010, 07:21 PM
 
143 posts, read 377,453 times
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Age discrimination is definitely an issue. However, the perception is that older people will have shorter careers so companies prefer investing in someone who, presumably, will stick around 'longer'. My parents are older and their biggest fear is to be laid off before social security hits and/or before they have enough to retire on. My mom, ideally, says she would like to work after retirement b/c she loves to work, however, she fears no one will want to hire an older worker.

That said, I don't think the 'white, older males' are unemployed b/c we are employing foreigners in science positions. My parents are those 'foreigners' hired by US employers for their technical skills. I think companies prefer hiring someone who speaks English as the primary language b/c it makes communication easier within the company. However, my parents have noticed most Americans prefer to try for more lucrative jobs than doing research, which is what they do. Those who think themselves 'smart enough' to do basic research shun spending so much time in school when they could apply the same brain power to medicine, finance etc. Others, who would appreciate the job are not so technically inclined. Put it another way, should my parents leave the country so to allow one of these 'older, while males' to take their jobs, I bet most would not be qualified to do research on protein enzyme translation.
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Old 10-31-2010, 07:27 PM
 
8,263 posts, read 12,169,934 times
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If there is a place older white males are discriminated against more than others, it is at the city park trying to get into a basketball game. End of thread.
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Old 10-31-2010, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Copiague, NY
1,500 posts, read 2,793,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich_CD View Post
There's a difference?
Some have gone to Burger King and asked: "Where's the beef".
I'd rather ask YOU, where's the stress?
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Old 10-31-2010, 10:30 PM
 
379 posts, read 1,399,878 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phylogeny View Post
Age discrimination is definitely an issue. However, the perception is that older people will have shorter careers so companies prefer investing in someone who, presumably, will stick around 'longer'. My parents are older and their biggest fear is to be laid off before social security hits and/or before they have enough to retire on. My mom, ideally, says she would like to work after retirement b/c she loves to work, however, she fears no one will want to hire an older worker.

That said, I don't think the 'white, older males' are unemployed b/c we are employing foreigners in science positions. My parents are those 'foreigners' hired by US employers for their technical skills. I think companies prefer hiring someone who speaks English as the primary language b/c it makes communication easier within the company. However, my parents have noticed most Americans prefer to try for more lucrative jobs than doing research, which is what they do. Those who think themselves 'smart enough' to do basic research shun spending so much time in school when they could apply the same brain power to medicine, finance etc. Others, who would appreciate the job are not so technically inclined. Put it another way, should my parents leave the country so to allow one of these 'older, while males' to take their jobs, I bet most would not be qualified to do research on protein enzyme translation.

Well said.

I think the title of this thread should be changed to "If it's white, it's all right. If it's black (or anything else really), take it back."

One thing I've learned the past few years is that racism is far from dead in this country. I think that it is in our nature as human beings to have someone to blame anything and as history has taught us, no one else is more qualified take the blame than someone who has different color skin, shape of eyes, and speaks with an accent. If people really want to blame someone, blame those who ship jobs off to other countries because they can exploit the workers there and have them work for $1/day instead of paying top dollar for the labor to be done here.

Last edited by iamrollinglow; 10-31-2010 at 10:39 PM..
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Old 10-31-2010, 10:44 PM
 
8,679 posts, read 15,239,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryleeII View Post


Just this weekend I saw no less than 5 older, white males working in menial jobs. Two were at the drive through at MCD, another 2 at Costco, sweeping the floor, one making pizza. Another was sweeping up at a local grocery store.

You could tell from the way the talked they were educated, probably had professional careers in the past. Now there they are, taking the only job they can find, probably minimum wage at that.

While the "good" jobs go to the foreign guys, they are the only ones who understand science, of course. Would help if they understood basic English.

It was just so hard to see people reduced to such pathetic circumstances just to survive. The most discriminated class in the workforce is the over 50, white male, no doubt about that!
Actually, McD is known for being open to hiring seniors when many other places won't.

If it was on the weekend, it could just be a part time job.

Don't assume too much about people you cross paths with.
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Old 10-31-2010, 10:56 PM
 
8,679 posts, read 15,239,385 times
Reputation: 15342
Quote:
Originally Posted by phylogeny View Post
Age discrimination is definitely an issue. However, the perception is that older people will have shorter careers so companies prefer investing in someone who, presumably, will stick around 'longer'. My parents are older and their biggest fear is to be laid off before social security hits and/or before they have enough to retire on. My mom, ideally, says she would like to work after retirement b/c she loves to work, however, she fears no one will want to hire an older worker.

That said, I don't think the 'white, older males' are unemployed b/c we are employing foreigners in science positions. My parents are those 'foreigners' hired by US employers for their technical skills. I think companies prefer hiring someone who speaks English as the primary language b/c it makes communication easier within the company. However, my parents have noticed most Americans prefer to try for more lucrative jobs than doing research, which is what they do. Those who think themselves 'smart enough' to do basic research shun spending so much time in school when they could apply the same brain power to medicine, finance etc. Others, who would appreciate the job are not so technically inclined. Put it another way, should my parents leave the country so to allow one of these 'older, while males' to take their jobs, I bet most would not be qualified to do research on protein enzyme translation.
Ooh, come sit by me. Over the last 10-15 years I've noticed a huge shift in the demographics of researchers I've interviewed for articles. Used to be mostly white American men, and I had to put a lot of effort into finding demographic variety for a monthly research column I used to write. Now I get to talk to plenty of people of all races, from all over the globe, male and female. Also interesting: A lot of the white guys I talk to are from Scandinavian countries, not the U.S. Don't get me wrong: There are still white American males in research. Research is just more heterogeneous now.

I love, love, LOVE interviewing such a diverse group of people and talking to them about their work. I sincerely believe that if world leaders could get along as well as scientists do, Earth would be a MUCH more peaceful place.
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Old 10-31-2010, 11:01 PM
 
4,709 posts, read 12,640,705 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryleeII View Post


Just this weekend I saw no less than 5 older, white males working in menial jobs. Two were at the drive through at MCD, another 2 at Costco, sweeping the floor, one making pizza. Another was sweeping up at a local grocery store.

You could tell from the way the talked they were educated, probably had professional careers in the past. Now there they are, taking the only job they can find, probably minimum wage at that.

While the "good" jobs go to the foreign guys, they are the only ones who understand science, of course. Would help if they understood basic English.

It was just so hard to see people reduced to such pathetic circumstances just to survive. The most discriminated class in the workforce is the over 50, white male, no doubt about that!

You probably shouldn't make assumptions about why people work menial jobs.

Due to inheritance and a large Federal pension, I'm pretty well off....but I got seriously bored after retiring in my early 50's. I was tired of the rat race, but I wanted something non-stressful to get me out of the house, so I took a job driving a school bus in a very affluent area...homes cost in the millions.

In the 8 years I've been driving, a surprising number of kids have asked me (very sympathetically)..."Did you ever think you'd end up as a bus driver?". But rather than tell them that I could pay cash for their daddy and mommy's mansion....I always tell them, "No, but that's why you want to study hard in school...so you don't end up like me!"

What really makes tickles me is when these parents give me $100 grocery store gift cards....like I can't afford food...LOL. Not knowing any gracious way to decline, I take them and give them to the single moms at the bus yard...fellow drivers that truly are struggling.
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Old 10-31-2010, 11:45 PM
 
Location: roaming gnome
12,384 posts, read 28,430,296 times
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At least those around 50 had their chance at making money? how about all the people from around 23-30 who haven't had a chance in hell due to sour economy of multiple recessions post world trade and 2008-current, might have started work, now their career and jobs are on hold, move back in with their parents, etc. plus they have the highest student loans in history to pay back. you are about to see another "lost generation"
You have a lot of jaded people just entering the work force and already forming bad opinions about it that their efforts are entirely futile...that is not good. Youth employment in Europe right now is around 30-40% in some countries. I was more able to make more money in the summer in high school than I can now almost turning 30, I also always usually had a part time weekend job.
None of that is available now. It is not a lack of desire to work, the jobs just don't exist, even all the fall back jobs just to "stay afloat".
Just my personal example, I made around 35K in 2005, 45K in 2006, 65K in 2007, 2008 35K (b/c job dried up only worked 6 months), 2009, 9K, 2010, 10K, nothing in sight and blew through substantial amount of $. The next step if things do not get better, is move back in with parents. I know many people 25-30 that are now living with their parents, kind of sad, because the people are perfectly capable of working. I am trying to go back to school for something else now but will probably cancel that out over fear of going even further in to debt with no job waiting for me as having no job now has allowed me time to do ROI calculations and projections. Better to just not do anything and not take on more debt and only go back if money is coming in, only then will the risk factor be OK to pay tuition. For the smart people w/o a safety net, it sucks. The "if you work hard and play by the rules" is not in play anymore.

Here is a nice article on that:

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/a...articleid=2619

But Wharton finance professor Franklin Allen warns that this recession is very different from downturns of the past. Young people who assume that a graduate degree is their ticket to a good job may be sorely mistaken. According to the GMAC Global Management Education Graduate Survey for 2010, the portion of MBA graduates with a job offer by March declined this year -- the second consecutive drop after that figure saw a steady climb since 2003. Overall, half of all graduates of the class of 2010 had a job or job offer by March. Newly minted attorneys face a similar fate: Many are competing against out-of-work lawyers for scant law firm positions and even entry-level jobs.
"In a normal recession [riding it out in grad school] is fine, but in this one it's a risky strategy," says Allen. "Young people aren't getting jobs the way they used to. Even students from top schools are finding it hard. It's a difficult situation. In normal recessions, things come back relatively quickly, but that's not happening now."

"It's a problem that's not well appreciated. People's careers are being damaged. People who are in their 20s and 30s are not being promoted, they are not getting raises and they are not getting opportunities [to progress in their careers] because the people above them are not moving. They can't leave their jobs because they probably won't be able to find work elsewhere. So they're stuck. This is a serious issue: It's setting people back a few years and they never really recover."

Last edited by grapico; 11-01-2010 at 12:17 AM..
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Old 11-01-2010, 12:48 AM
 
379 posts, read 1,399,878 times
Reputation: 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avienne View Post
Ooh, come sit by me. Over the last 10-15 years I've noticed a huge shift in the demographics of researchers I've interviewed for articles. Used to be mostly white American men, and I had to put a lot of effort into finding demographic variety for a monthly research column I used to write. Now I get to talk to plenty of people of all races, from all over the globe, male and female. Also interesting: A lot of the white guys I talk to are from Scandinavian countries, not the U.S. Don't get me wrong: There are still white American males in research. Research is just more heterogeneous now.

I love, love, LOVE interviewing such a diverse group of people and talking to them about their work. I sincerely believe that if world leaders could get along as well as scientists do, Earth would be a MUCH more peaceful place.

If only.... The problem of course, is that there is a huge lack of the understanding of science and the trepidation in teaching it properly especially here in the good ol' US of A. In the past decade and a half or so we have witnessed science turned into the scary fang rearing anthesis designed to undermine the dogmatic rubbish that the far, far right continues to bolster. I may not be giving my fellow Americans enough credit but the people I observe and read about continue to eat up that garbage and fail to learn anything from it. Every day that goes by, I am more inclined to believe that the last two things that many Americans will be holding onto will be a gun in one hand and a bible in the other.
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Old 11-01-2010, 12:59 AM
 
379 posts, read 1,399,878 times
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Originally Posted by car54 View Post
In the 8 years I've been driving, a surprising number of kids have asked me (very sympathetically)..."Did you ever think you'd end up as a bus driver?". But rather than tell them that I could pay cash for their daddy and mommy's mansion....I always tell them, "No, but that's why you want to study hard in school...so you don't end up like me!"

The teaching of sympathy and compassion, or lack thereof truly starts at a young age. I suppose that the children you drive around are very fortunate that mommy and daddy have ensured that they will never experience what many people, myself included, the hardships that we are all currently facing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by car54 View Post
What really makes tickles me is when these parents give me $100 grocery store gift cards....like I can't afford food...LOL. Not knowing any gracious way to decline, I take them and give them to the single moms at the bus yard...fellow drivers that truly are struggling.

I'm glad to know that you are still compassionate toward your fellow human being. The next time you get one of those gift cards, think you can send one over my way? It would be great to eat a different flavor of ramen and upgrade from tuna to turkey just for once, believe it or not, the few cents in price make a big difference.
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