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Read my post again. A CJ degree is only useless if myself or others are looking to go into law enforcement or security. There are plenty of jobs that require a CJ degree that pay well the only problem is the availability of those jobs. I don't know what world you are living in but there is a limited number of openings in almost all fields.
Why don't you just start your own corporations or government departments if you have a problem with not finding a job, that is what somebody with drive and motivation who isn't lazy would do.
First of all, thank you for jumping to personal insults.
There was no personal insult to you. I just provided an if/then scenario. A personal insult (aka violation of C-D rules) would be like Browneyes calling me an idiot in the post above yours.
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Originally Posted by hnsq
Second of all, I am just trying to understand what you said. In your post you said that you are told that you 'kill it' in interviews because of your education. I might suggest a Dale Carnegie class. They cost about $200 and provide a person with the exact skills you listed. The program has been around for a long time (over 70 years I believe) and is very, very effective (and much cheaper than a liberal arts degree).
I simply provided one example of how my education benefited me. If you want all the juicy details, you'll just have to wait for the autobiography.
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Originally Posted by hnsq
My computer science degree gave me technical skills necessary in my job. One can learn soft skills though experience on the job, in life, etc. Technical skills, however, lean themselves more towards classroom learning in that a subject matter expert can provide documented, trusted and tried techniques without the guess-and-check method self-teaching employs.
One can also learn technical skills through self-teaching (from a text book) and seminars. In fact, I'm sure most of your classes required a text book. Also, there are plenty of forums online to get advice and pointers from experienced professionals. Beats having to listen to a nerdy, monotone professor two-three days out of the week, not to mention, having to pay to listen to him. Sorry, bud, but your skills aren't as scarce or difficult to attain as you may like to believe, especially in this free-flowing information day and age..
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Originally Posted by hnsq
Third of all, calm down champ. We can have a discussion without the anger.
I'm not angry. Can't you tell by the big, toothy grin on my face?
Why don't you just start your own corporations or government departments if you have a problem with not finding a job, that is what somebody with drive and motivation who isn't lazy would do.
I am far from lazy and will work any job at any pay rate. Starting your own business requires money, money I don't have. Now if you want to give me the money to start my own business then I will give you my email address. If not ****!
Why don't you just start your own corporations or government departments if you have a problem with not finding a job, that is what somebody with drive and motivation who isn't lazy would do.
I realize you're probably being facetious here and it is implicitly directed towards me. I will again remind you that I've been advocating against high unemployment, outsourcing, the U.S.'s high Gini coefficient, etc. I'm on your side, buddy. The sooner your realize that, the sooner we can end this pseudo feud.
I am far from lazy and will work any job at any pay rate. Starting your own business requires money, money I don't have. Now if you want to give me the money to start my own business then I will give you my email address. If not ****!
I don't think anybody thinks you're lazy, Browneyes. I believe grapico was being facetious, as was I.
I'm tired of reading two things on this forum. First, I'm tired of reading which degrees are worthless. Yes, I take offense when someone with little knowledge about my degree feels bold enough to say that it was a waste. How would they know? Ignorant generalizing statements. That's the only way I can describe them. Your education is what you make of it. How you decide to use it is up to you. There are success stories out there from every degree field (Michael Eisner from Disney, Ben and Jerry, John Mackey from Whole Foods, Elon Musk from Tesla Motors, my Econ major friend who developed apps for Facebook, et al). And most likely, you're correct in that it probably wasn't only because of the degree. It was also because of the intelligent and ambitious design of the person. Life is a big, effing puzzle. You need to make good use of your resources (education, experience, whatever else) to fit the pieces together.
Second, I'm tired of reading about how everybody has a degree. This IS NOT fact. According to census data, it's been estimated that only about 30% of Americans possess a bachelor's degree (and that probably includes all those who purchased life experience degrees online). Even fewer possess a professional/post-grad degree. When people say this, they denigrate the value of a college education by creating a false impression that more than a majority of people have something they do not. They do it either because they have it and are frustrated with their current situation or they don't have it and deep down they want it.
I'm working two jobs right now (one full time management, one part time retail), so if you think I'm going to pander to you, think again. My advice to you is to man up, because a lot of people aren't going to do anything for you. Yeah, we'll all be sympathetic on this forum for you, but where does that leave you at the end of the day? Stop feeling sorry for yourself and focus on something productive (building new networks, developing new skills, thinking up alternative business ideas, etc.) Lastly, get off this forum. It's depressing, stress-inducing and cuts into your productivity.
There was no personal insult to you. I just provided an if/then scenario. A personal insult (aka violation of C-D rules) would be like Browneyes calling me an idiot in the post above yours.
I take the line about deductive reasoning skills to be a bit insulting, but maybe you don't realize how you come across.
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I simply provided one example of how my education benefited me. If you want all the juicy details, you'll just have to wait for the autobiography.
Then be more clear in your posts. Leaving details out of a debate then getting upset when people interpret you the wrong way is not a great way to hold a conversation.
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One can also learn technical skills through self-teaching (from a text book) and seminars. In fact, I'm sure most of your classes required a text book. Also, there are plenty of forums online to get advice and pointers from experienced professionals. Beats having to listen to a nerdy, monotone professor two-three days out of the week, not to mention, having to pay to listen to him. Sorry, bud, but your skills aren't as scarce or difficult to attain as you may like to believe, especially in this free-flowing information day and age..
No offense, but if you are relying on online forums to learn technical skills, you are missing out on a large part of education. Techniques taught by those who dedicate their lives to pushing the limits of the theories behind a fields are a little more valid than reading what some hack programmer types on a message board. To make the claim that you can learn as much on your own as you can from interaction and discussion with leading world experts is ignorant at best. Anyone can write a computer program, not as many people can do that well. There is a reason organizations such as the NSA require at least a masters in fields like computer science (and often times, prefer more education than that). Do me a favor - try to apply for a tech job at a good tech organization (NSA, Google, development at Amazon, etc..) with a liberal arts degree and let me know how hard the interviewer laughs at you.
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I'm not angry. Can't you tell by the big, toothy grin on my face?
I guess I will have to take your word on that, champ.
I take the line about deductive reasoning skills to be a bit insulting, but maybe you don't realize how you come across.
Or maybe you're over-sensitive to criticism.
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Originally Posted by hnsq
Then be more clear in your posts. Leaving details out of a debate then getting upset when people interpret you the wrong way is not a great way to hold a conversation.
You're the one who jumped to hasty conclusions. That is not a great way to hold a conversation either, particularly if you're not ready to receive some backlash in response.
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Originally Posted by hnsq
No offense, but if you are relying on online forums to learn technical skills, you are missing out on a large part of education. Techniques taught by those who dedicate their lives to pushing the limits of the theories behind a fields are a little more valid than reading what some hack programmer types on a message board. To make the claim that you can learn as much on your own as you can from interaction and discussion with leading world experts is ignorant at best. Anyone can write a computer program, not as many people can do that well. There is a reason organizations such as the NSA require at least a masters in fields like computer science (and often times, prefer more education than that). Do me a favor - try to apply for a tech job at a good tech organization (NSA, Google, development at Amazon, etc..) with a liberal arts degree and let me know how hard the interviewer laughs at you.
Not saying it's common, but my friend developed for Facebook for a few years. He has an Econ degree. I don't think they found much humor in that. Besides, I'm not focusing on an IT career. Believe it or not, there is a whole world of opportunity beyond client servers and binary code.
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Originally Posted by hnsq
I guess I will have to take your word on that, champ.
I am far from lazy and will work any job at any pay rate. Starting your own business requires money, money I don't have. Now if you want to give me the money to start my own business then I will give you my email address. If not ****!
It costs a bit less if you run a business via online, but that's if you perform a service instead of selling products. I have a couple of friends who run their own businesses. One runs her own marketing business and another runs a life coaching business (laugh if you like, but you would be surprised at what you can sell in this economy). I do agree that businesses--especially brick and mortar--can be difficult to get running if you are selling products or services which require hiring other people or buying special software you do not have available.
There are some businesses, such as blogging, that can produce quite a bit of money for a lot less overhead, but you have to love writing and be willing to work extremely long hours (promotion, marketing, updating blogs daily, affiliate marketing, creating products such as eBooks, etc.). Even then, you have to hit a profitable niche that hasn't been over-saturated and you have to utilize SEO, know how to use proper keywords, have something to offer the readers, etc.
To me it really does not matter what you major in it could be a hard subject or a soft subject. Because their are fewer and fewer jobs. Most kids have to go into debt to go to college. Many are becoming underemployed. We have 15 million unemployed and very little job growth and it has been going on for years now. We are pumping 1 million college grads a year out. Yet their is no work for the vast number of these grads. I read an article not too long ago. It said up to 35% of the jobs in the future will be temp or freelance work. They said business has been doing this more and more it lower cost. They planned to stay with it after things improved. So that 35% of jobs add in 15% of jobs being made part time. That means 1 out of 2 jobs will not be full time or have benefits. Japan has already done this 35% of their workforce is temps. It is part of the normal job market. Vast numbers are also forever part time. They also eliminated 5% of their jobs with the use of technology. They have been sending jobs overseas for years as well. They have had little job growth for 20 years. The makeup of the US job market is not going to be the same over the next 10 to 20 years. Good pay stable jobs health benefits are going to be a thing of the past for most. Which brings the whole idea of college into doubt.
You're the one who jumped to hasty conclusions. That is not a great way to hold a conversation either, particularly if you're not ready to receive some backlash in response.
Not saying it's common, but my friend developed for Facebook for a few years. He has an Econ degree. I don't think they found much humor in that. Besides, I'm not focusing on an IT career. Believe it or not, there is a whole world of opportunity beyond client servers and binary code.
Yes, you will, bud.
Obviously there are opportunities beyond IT (and if you are dealing with binary or servers then you might not have the most high paying job in IT! Anyone can teach themselves how to run a server, development, or something that takes real skill, on the other hand, does need more education), however the conversation we were having (and that you brought up I have to add) was about technical jobs. Why, exactly are you claiming that you don't need a technical degree to work in a technical field if you aren't even interested in something technical?
I just want to make sure I understand what you did on this thread. You, as a liberal arts major who is NOT interested in technical work made the claim that you can get jobs in a technical field without a technical degree. While you are at it, why don't you tell us how to become a QB for the Patriots while you are at it?
Obviously there are exceptions to the rule and obviously there are people with liberal arts degrees in technical fields, but when it comes to job placement in technical fields, liberal arts majors are not nearly as helpful as technical degrees. THAT is the point of the thread, and I am not sure how you could disagree with that. You aren't really going to tell someone who wants to be an electrical engineer to major in english literature, are you? Good lord.
Good luck buddy. I think you might need it.
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