Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Thank you all for the responses. The truth is obviously I don't know if I will or will not like accounting when I'm actually in the work setting. I'm leaning towards getting my MSA and seeing what accounting is actually like outside of school. If it does not work out, then perhaps the experience I gain will allow me to attain another position elsewhere. Sometimes I feel like numbers are not my strong suit due to what I get on standardized tests. On my GMAT I received a 560 (without studying). That put me at I think the 52nd percentile. My verbal was at the 73rd percentile, and my quantitative was at the 32nd percentile. This was a bit of a confidence killer for me. I was accepted since my overall score was average, but my low quantitative score makes me feel unintelligent. I guess I shouldn't let standardized test scores dictate my feelings, but it damages my confidence. This is why I feel like I'm not very good with numbers. However, I did get a 3.6 gpa in the upper two years. I feel like I am lacking confidence in myself, and that is a large reason why I have been questioning accounting.
IMO, how does he know accounting's not for him, when he hasn't truly done it yet?
For me, working in accounting is so much easier than the boring stuff we learned in school. At least for a public company with decent internal controls and ERP. I suppose my college accounting may have been helpful at a small business where I'd have to build everything from scratch.
When people learn I'm a CPA, they often comment, "oh you must be good with numbers, I'm not so I couldn't do your job." Good with numbers? Accounting isn't higher level math, it's almost entirely the basic four (+, -, *, /). If it's beyond that, you'll have software, an Excel formula, or some other aid.
The job is understanding what the results mean. Accounting is translating business activity into numbers. I loved classifying different purchases, income streams, explaining budgets to non-accountants in plain language, and figuring out how to develop reports to show management what they needed.
I feel like the accounting field is closer to solving problems or puzzles rather than being excellent at math. It also requires high integrity and the strength to deal with deadlines and stressful situations.
I agree that he doesn't seem to get what working in accounting is really like. School and real-life are very different. Working in your chosen field WHILE going to school is the way to go in order to get the clear picture.
I recommend getting some sort of job in accounting before you ever start your masters. Don't waste money like that! I feel like you are being forced to choose school or work since you are living with your parents.
bobert, you sound almost exactly like myself when i was close to finishing my undergrad.
i hate accounting but stuck with it and was able to get an internship my last semester. now i work at a small local firm where it is very flexible, allowing me to study my becker materials for the cpa exam.
i was also offered a position with a large firm in south florida and when i saw the salary, all the worrying and resilience was well worth it.
all of this did not come without sending hundreds resumes out though emails directly to partners and cpa firms all across the state (you can even try out-of-state). the firm i am working at now i worked there for 6 months unpaid and not until starting in january i started getting paid for my work because of tax season. the great thing is, even though i wasn't getting paid, i was able to put that experience on my resume, work directly with the owner of the firm who helped me fine tune my resume, and SERIOUSLY i was going to the last interview that i would go to before considering pursuing something else and i was offered the job.
its possible man! my undergrad gpa was only a 3.0 but i do have sales/management experience + the bit of internship experience.
now i still hate accounting, it is EXTREMELY boring sitting in an office all day, inputting numbers on the computer, looking for figures through documents, scanning, etc all the grunt work.
its ok though, because i am learning a great deal about business, and you get to work with like-minded people. personally, i am looking into starting my own business soon, and i have learned things about running a business i would never have known otherwise.
once you get that experience, its a whole new ball game. everything that happened with the job search etc before that, its all in the past. once you get your foot in the door, you are on your way.
i am honestly probably one of the least expecting people to be an accountant, but now i will be working for a large firm, i havent even started yet and theyve paid for my becker and the salary is well above industry average.
stick to it man you can even sign up with H+R block and those places to get some experience, good luck
I haven't read through all this thread, so I don't know if this has been mentioned before---have you considered volunterring for VITA?
Well, I think its perhaps a little late to get in for this tax season, but consider it next year.
For those who don't know VITA = volunteer Income Tax Assistant its a volunteer program with the IRS, helps low-income and elderly fill out individual income tax forms. Of course, that doesn't translate to corporete accounting, but it can be a foot in the door for IRS. And, don't doscount working for IRS. with a BS in accounting, you start of fairly high, I don't know the scale, but high like GS-15. You start of even higher if you were an honors student, Beta Alpha Psi, etc. The work is steady, if not glamorous.
I've done VITA, and I know several people who got a foot in the door with IRS because of it.
The previous post has some good information, but some things need correcting.
IRS with a bachelor's starts at GS-7, with a master's GS-9. Still nothing to sneeze at, and these days the jobs are more competitive than they've ever been. In smaller markets, the entry level IRS salary is as good if not better than starting out with a firm, and you can get to grade 11 in 1-2 years depending on if you started at grade 7 or grade 9. GS-15 is not a grade that someone would start at, it's a senior level grade that most people would probably never reach in their career [I think most people who get promoted usually stall out at GS-13, and your garden variety career agent remains at GS-11 because that's as far as you can get without having to compete for a promotion.]
Grades and extracurriculars don't have anything to do with your starting grade, the only thing that matters is if you have a bachelor's, a master's, or previous experience working for a similar taxing authority like a state or local government. Good grades can help you qualify for consideration if you haven't finished school yet [one of their big things is having the degree finished and having the required courses in accounting.] If you already have a degree I don't think they look at it so much. It's not like a firm where they want a high GPA and lots of extracurriculars.
Unfortunately, external hiring is going to remain on hold until a budget is passed, although it's safe to say that they are eventually going to have to increase hiring. Just a question of when, and if the job situation will improve to the point where you'll quit seeing people with years of experience competing for these jobs they would have not considered a few years ago. I've been trying to get on with them for nearly three years now.
People with significant and specialized experience could start out at a group like Large and Mid-Sized business, and that would be a higher grade, but even then I think they would start at grade 11. I believe grade 11 is the highest possible grade where you can start, and it's pretty hard to qualify for.
the firm i am working at now i worked there for 6 months unpaid and not until starting in january i started getting paid for my work because of tax season. the great thing is, even though i wasn't getting paid, i was able to put that experience on my resume, work directly with the owner of the firm who helped me fine tune my resume, and SERIOUSLY i was going to the last interview that i would go to before considering pursuing something else and i was offered the job.
FYI, most firms and businesses won't do the unpaid volunteer work thing once you graduate. The reason is that they are subject to labor laws that require a minimum wage, so they'll have to assert some sort of sham independent contractor status. It subjects them to liability from both the employee and regulators, so most don't bother and at least pay some sort of nominal wages.
But I agree getting relevant experience can be helpful, in any form, so if you are having trouble finding paid employment try volunteering at a nonprofit. A local CPA society or your careers services department are good sources of leads. Just about every nonprofit I've been around could use some help with accounting or with some special projects. And if you do any outstanding job, I would think the CFO or director of finance (maybe even board members) will float your name for job opportunities. Board members of nonprofits are often large fundraisers with connections to the local business community.
The previous post has some good information, but some things need correcting.
IRS with a bachelor's starts at GS-7, with a master's GS-9. Still nothing to sneeze at, and these days the jobs are more competitive than they've ever been. In smaller markets, the entry level IRS salary is as good if not better than starting out with a firm, and you can get to grade 11 in 1-2 years depending on if you started at grade 7 or grade 9. GS-15 is not a grade that someone would start at, it's a senior level grade that most people would probably never reach in their career [I think most people who get promoted usually stall out at GS-13, and your garden variety career agent remains at GS-11 because that's as far as you can get without having to compete for a promotion.]
Grades and extracurriculars don't have anything to do with your starting grade, the only thing that matters is if you have a bachelor's, a master's, or previous experience working for a similar taxing authority like a state or local government. Good grades can help you qualify for consideration if you haven't finished school yet [one of their big things is having the degree finished and having the required courses in accounting.] If you already have a degree I don't think they look at it so much. It's not like a firm where they want a high GPA and lots of extracurriculars.
Unfortunately, external hiring is going to remain on hold until a budget is passed, although it's safe to say that they are eventually going to have to increase hiring. Just a question of when, and if the job situation will improve to the point where you'll quit seeing people with years of experience competing for these jobs they would have not considered a few years ago. I've been trying to get on with them for nearly three years now.
People with significant and specialized experience could start out at a group like Large and Mid-Sized business, and that would be a higher grade, but even then I think they would start at grade 11. I believe grade 11 is the highest possible grade where you can start, and it's pretty hard to qualify for.
Thanks for the corrections LIke I said, I wasn't sure if I had my facts straight, but I do know with a degree in accounting one can start with the IRS at a higher pay rate than without one. also, I wouldn't discount the thing about a high GPA---I was told you can be bumped up a bit on the initial pay grade if you have a high GPA or in Beta Alpha Psi. Its been awhile since I've applied to IRS and things change, but worth looking into.
I don't know how anyone gets a job in business/accounting without one today.
Start trying for an internship the first day of classes.
I agree, but it isn't easy for a masters of accounting student. The reason is if you already have your B.S. in Accounting, the Master's program is only 1 academic year.
So you don't have a summer vacation to do an internship prior to graduating. Also, a full time co-op would essentially require you to do an extra semester. A part time co-op isn't easy to get if the campus isn't in a decent sized city and just doesn't have the same impact as a full time co-op.
The end result is 1 year Master's accounting students rarely do internships or co-ops. Another thing that sucks is on campus recruiting happens in early fall for most big firms and companies, so you don't have any grades, honors, or leadership positions to differentiate yourself. So your undergraduate record and prior work experience is more important to many employers. So Masters program's on campus recruiting maybe very limited value for a student with an undistinguished background. It isn't like you can go to a Masters program, get straight A's, do Beta Alpha Psi, do an internship, and then a full time position at a major firm.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
LIke I said, I wasn't sure if I had my facts straight, but I do know with a degree in accounting one can start with the IRS at a higher pay rate than without one. also, I wouldn't discount the thing about a high GPA---I was told you can be bumped up a bit on the initial pay grade if you have a high GPA or in Beta Alpha Psi. Its been awhile since I've applied to IRS and things change, but worth looking into.
