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We have a long way to go before we can call it great. At the same time, many businesses in my line of work are expanding like crazy. I'm seeing new machinery being installed every month. Many of our suppliers can't keep up with demand, and they are expanding because of it. Every type of tooling I try to order is on back order, so I have to anticipate what I will need months in advance. The company I work for looses thousands of dollars a day if I can't secure tooling in time and a machine sits idle, so I am buying like crazy.
So... Things are definitely moving in the right directed, but I am getting a bit stressed! I'm also happy to report we have added about 8 new jobs in the last month.
The scary thing is thus far 14 said the economy is good. And these people vote? : smack:
That baffles me. We are in the deepest depression since 1928. By all neutral NON government statistics we are indeed in a depression. If your govt ever said that dirty filthy curse word DEPRESSION it would send world financial markets into a downward spiral that would be unrecoverable. You will never hear your govt say that word. But they know.
But as long as your govt reports false misleading news to the media who reports it to the Sheep that follow the brown hole in front of them everything is all rosy and peachy.
The economy has lost more jobs last year then in any year since WW2, payroll has dropped to it's lowest level since the great depression, the construction industry has been decimated, factory output has shrunk to it's lowest in our history, once the most powerful companies on earth....companies (GM and Ford) who spelled true American might are dead in the water and have drowned, for the first time in our history our homes are depreciating at a faster rate then automobiles!!!, more then a hundred trillion dollars in real estate equity is lost forever, over a trillion dollars in lost retirement nest eggs gone...poof.......bla bla bla....
History will show something else. When all great downturns appear to hit rock bottom, all the investors come out of the woodwork buying up everything in sight. But as history shows, all suspected rock bottoms always seems to have found an even lower low. More money lost. Next round of foreclosures. In 10 years we will be a nation of renters. In 20 years the only 2 businesses surviving and hiring will be Walmart and Bank of America.
When at the bottom, people always think we will never climb to the top again. Smart money will always win in times like these. And factory output has been impressive in this country. Advance in automation have allowed fewer factories/plants to produce the same number of goods, which mean better prices for consumers. Factories have never been as productive and efficient as they are today.
It's better to inspire others to achieve greatness, rather than to tear them down for their shortcomings as so many people do on this forum. That's my biggest qualm with the conservative movement (the arrogance factor). Otherwise, I'm all for a capitalist economic system. I think it can have a very positive impact on society as a whole.
The conservative movement is largely based on arrogance. Take the issue of tax cuts. Conservatives thinks it's OK to give the wealthy tax cuts because they're "the job creators". But we can't give tax cuts to the poor because they'll just waste it on drugs and booz and a new set of rims. Same with unemployment. It's OK to give subsidies to businesses because they'll use it responsibly. But give money to some middle class guy who lost his job and he'll just sit on his couch watching TV. The underlying theme in both cases is that the people at the top, be they wealthy individuals or big corporations, should be trusted to do what's right for all of us. But the people at the bottom can't. It's a very arrogant view of people and it permeates a lot of conservative thinking.
The conservative movement is largely based on arrogance. Take the issue of tax cuts. Conservatives thinks it's OK to give the wealthy tax cuts because they're "the job creators". But we can't give tax cuts to the poor because they'll just waste it on drugs and booz and a new set of rims. Same with unemployment. It's OK to give subsidies to businesses because they'll use it responsibly. But give money to some middle class guy who lost his job and he'll just sit on his couch watching TV. The underlying theme in both cases is that the people at the top, be they wealthy individuals or big corporations, should be trusted to do what's right for all of us. But the people at the bottom can't. It's a very arrogant view of people and it permeates a lot of conservative thinking.
The ironic thing is, if more was done to protect and empower the middle class, the rich would probably be better off as well. Who buys most of the garbage that corporate America sells? With all this price slashing going on, the middle class is either loosing their jobs or making crap wages. Now we can no longer afford to be consumers like before. Race to the bottom is what it is.
The conservative movement is largely based on arrogance. Take the issue of tax cuts. Conservatives thinks it's OK to give the wealthy tax cuts because they're "the job creators". But we can't give tax cuts to the poor because they'll just waste it on drugs and booz and a new set of rims. Same with unemployment. It's OK to give subsidies to businesses because they'll use it responsibly. But give money to some middle class guy who lost his job and he'll just sit on his couch watching TV. The underlying theme in both cases is that the people at the top, be they wealthy individuals or big corporations, should be trusted to do what's right for all of us. But the people at the bottom can't. It's a very arrogant view of people and it permeates a lot of conservative thinking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire
The ironic thing is, if more was done to protect and empower the middle class, the rich would probably be better off as well. Who buys most of the garbage that corporate America sells? With all this price slashing going on, the middle class is either loosing their jobs or making crap wages. Now we can no longer afford to be consumers like before. Race to the bottom is what it is.
You both have some valid points. andywire is right in that the focus needs to be on the middle class (along with the upper class). The lower class on the other hand has such a low ROI, that it's not worth it.
No. The economy is not doing great. Out of all the people I know, only my landlord and my father have not lost a job or had their hours cut. And this is Orange County, CA (8 percent unemployment) and Utah (7 percent unemployment) we're talking about.
I think it has gotten a little better than it was back in 2009/2010 because I can actually find jobs to apply to now. Back in 2009/2010, that wasn't really the case.
My mechanic, dentist, doctor and countless others are barely hobbling along. I've kept in touch with the employers who have laid me off. They're still not doing that great. The average healthcare census in Utah is still around 70%, which is very low, which means that the hospitals aren't full which means they are cutting staff. I also heard from my last boss with Intermountain that record numbers of people are not paying their hospital bills. The nursing home that laid me off in 2009 still has a down census now, 2 years later.The hospice I used to work for that nearly went bankrupt also still has a low census.
I still have family and friends getting laid off right and left. The law firm I left to move here to California just laid off a ton of its staff. I just lost a job myself and am laid off...yet again. People seem to be going through cycles: hired, work for several months to a year, laid off, unemployed, repeat cycle. I have an uncle in his 50s who works at Lowe's part-time and a cousin who can't find a job as a pastor because the churches aren't hiring because no one is tithing. I've got friends who went to college or trade school and got dregrees who once worked in construction and no one will hire them.
I run through my neighborhood every morning, both when I lived in Utah and now in SoCal. 8-10 homes always for sale, and at least one abandoned.
I'm from Vegas, and I would love to move back home, but my hometown is still on its deathbed and is barely bumping along like a ship that has hit bottom and can't go down much further without sinking fully. The last time I drove to my hometown to visit friends, I actually cried. So many empty buildings. It is a far cry from the Vegas I grew up in.
There are literally parts of Salt Lake City that are empty, building after building abandoned. Whole parts of SLC that never saw crime are starting to see it. I drove through Pomona when I first moved to OC here in California, and parts of that city were just empty as well. Even in OC, you find empty buildings everywhere. I went to Newport Beach and there were tons of beach homes for sale/rent because people couldn't afford them anymore.
I think in the last month alone, at least three friends have lost jobs. The cycle just does not seem to be ending.
My dad and my landlord, are, thankfully, not ignorant of this economy...but unfortunately this is partly because my mother and my landlord's wife have had job issues themselves.
We're definitely not out of this mess. Not for a long while. And no while groceries and gas keep going up, and jobs are $10 an hour and want a college degree.
You both have some valid points. andywire is right in that the focus needs to be on the middle class (along with the upper class). The lower class on the other hand has such a low ROI, that it's not worth it.
So, just let the useless eaters die, right? People like you make me sick. Unfortunately, while this country lacks jobs and a soul, it sure doesn't lack for John Galt wannabes.
So, just let the useless eaters die, right? People like you make me sick. Unfortunately, while this country lacks jobs and a soul, it sure doesn't lack for John Galt wannabes.
Well, I don't know why you consider some people useless eaters. I personally do not. It's a matter of economics. Let's fix the middle class first. When we have them straightened out, then work on the lower class. You cannot help the lower class with a weakened middle class. They CANNOT compete against eachother. Take the middle class out of the competition for jobs (meaning they are not in a state of desire), and the opportunity will open up for the lower class.
Fixing a lower class economy without fixing the middle class economy will not be sustainable. If my view of economics makes you sick, vote against me.
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