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Very few students have the advanced skills that could lead to careers in science and technology, according to results of a national exam released Tuesday that education leaders called alarming.
Only 1 percent of fourth-grade and 12th-grade students, and 2 percent of eighth-graders scored in the highest group on the 2009 National Assessment of Educational Progress, a federal test known as the Nation's Report Card. Less than half were considered proficient, with many more showing minimal science knowledge.
U.S. Education Secretary Arne Duncan said the results mean students aren't learning at a rate that will maintain the nation's role as an international leader in the sciences. He and others expressed concern that more students aren't prepared for careers as inventors, doctors and engineers in a world increasingly driven by technology.
"Our ability to create the next generation of U.S. leaders in science and technology is seriously in danger," said Alan Friedman, former director of the New York Hall of Science, and a member of the board that oversees the test.
Actually nevermind this is getting nowhere, you seem determined to engage in an misguided attacks on others cultural exposure when you can't debate the subject well enough, so let's just drop it.
That is what I just said, you learning reading/writing in zhongwenban, the kids there usually can speak and understand from being around their parents.
They LEARN to read and write in schools in addition to learning from parents.
There is a difference. You compared that schooled knowledge of their language to street gang members.
Americans who speak english or any other language without being schooled would not have the same linguistic skills or understanding as someone who was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by slackjaw
I didn't say took a vacation, I said I was born overseas and spent most of my childhood overseas. You seemed determined to turn this thread into an attack on my not being aware of other cultures, that certainly isn't the case.
Did you grow up in the U.S.?
Yes, I grew up in the U.S. and I know that excelling in academics is a low priority amongst many Americans.. even those who study IT and engineering do so with little enthusiasm or commitment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by slackjaw
Actually nevermind this is getting nowhere, you seem determined to engage in an misguided attacks on others cultural exposure when you can't debate the subject well enough, so let's just drop it.
Your facts are wrong... period.
You have posted cultural/historical "facts" that are plain wrong and your "interpretations" from faulty data are culturally offensive.
They LEARN to read and write in schools in addition to learning from parents.
There is a difference. You compared that schooled knowledge of their language to street gang members.
No, I compared being bilingual in Chinese kids to being bilingual in street gang members. You were talking about how the Asian kids are bilingual, and I contest that is simply from exposure to the language, no different than anyone else who grows up exposed to multiple languages in their environment.
Allow me to clarify: I believe most Asian kids are bilingual because they hear their parents/relatives/etc. talking, just like a kid growing up in South Phoenix would be able to speak Spanish or English. Attending zhongwenban the primary skills they are acquiring (or being forced to acquire) is reading and writing. The classes aren't much of an influence on whether they are bilingual, and in fact I'd submit most Chinese kids flush the most of their ability to write characters as soon as their parents stop making them go. Ask 'em when they are 19 years old to print the numbers and they'll be able to do 1,2,3,10.
Quote:
Yes, I grew up in the U.S. and I know that education is a low priority among many Americans.. even those who study IT and engineering do so with little enthusiasm.
Curious, do you speak Chinese? Talking about Chinatowns I suspect your parents spoke Canto right?
No, I compared being bilingual in Chinese kids to being bilingual in street gang members. You were talking about how the Asian kids are bilingual, and I contest that is simply from exposure to the language, no different than anyone else who grows up exposed to multiple languages in their environment.
It's obvious I was talking about EDUCATED bi-lingual Asians in regards to their success in spelling bee contestants.
Your street gang analogy was ridiculous.
Since we were comparing AMERICAN spelling bee contestants amongst the ELITE and assuming they have comparable IQ's, their memorization abilities should be the same and noone can memorize every word so the language clues given are vital for the elite spellers.
The very Top Anglo-American students are as much bookworms as the American Asian kids so being SCHOOLED in another language can logically give them that slight advantage they seem to have... otherwise, we might assume they just have lower IQs, which I don't do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by slackjaw
Curious, do you speak Chinese? Talking about Chinatowns I suspect your parents spoke Canto right?
Yes, I speak cantonese and can write in characters in traditional brush.
I'm one of the dumber chinese guys because most of my relatives speak Cantonese and Mandarin.
What's the difference between outscourcing and offshoring?
Outsourcing is contracting work that used to be done in-house to another firm. Offshoring is relocating part of the business to another country.
If a company eliminates part of their IT division and instead signs a contract with Google to provide email services (this example was brought up earlier) they have outsourced their email system. If a company shuts down a factory in Peoria and replaces it with one in Guadalajara, they have offshored that operation to Mexico.
This thread is about outsourcing mainly to asians and we are debating their abilities.
True, I use Chinese as examples because I know more about China... but we are debating China AND Indian success... or Asians in general. The spelling bee is just ONE example we got hung up on.
Indians are clearly capable of doing anything the Chinese can do, in the case of spelling bees... they are surpassing the Chinese.
Are Indians simply better at memorization?
That stereotype is usually applied to chinese and Japanese more than Indians so memorization skills isn't the simple answer to their dominance.
Going back to the language thing, I think American Indian parents are even more demanding that their kids learn their own language and culture than Chinese American parents. Elite Indian spelling bee champions aren't "out-studying" the Chinese, they have a better understanding of languages so they can reason out the words they don't know more often.
Last edited by raymond2; 05-23-2011 at 11:21 AM..
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