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I've noticed a huge river of divide separating young and older workers in terms of work philosophy. I know, "work philosophy" sounds weak and while there has to be a better term it is the only one I can come up with at the moment.
The only jobs I had that paid hourly were those I held prior to 1973 and since that time I've always been paid an weekly salary even when I worked for myself.
When I started training for my current job, this was back in the mid 70's, I got paid a monthly salary that, adjusted for inflation, would be $4,474.53 in terms of today's dollars. For a trainee with just a high school diploma when you consider my benefits included 100% company paid health insurance for the family, paid holidays and vacation I had it pretty good in comparison to many twenty somethings today.
Imagine the applications if we advertised for someone with a high school diploma to be a trainee with a starting wage of $25.84/hr, fully paid medical insurance, paid 2 week vacation, holiday pay and a 401k where the employer matched your contribution?
This was standard back then which demonstrates how eroded the middle class has become.
No wonder today's generation doesn't have the work ethic I perceived we had "back then".
I have a personal message for the 20 something younger generation. You've really been screwed over, you will never have it as good as I had it but if you want someone to blame don't look to me, don't look to greedy corporations (they are no more greedy today than they were 40 plus years ago) but look to Washington DC where the true puppet masters of the decline live live of luxury in government. Democrat or republican it makes no difference though they want you to think it does.
So as a trainee I got my equivalent of $1,033.60 every week but I was a trainee, I was learning and as a learning trainee I worked a lot more hours than 40 "learning my craft". I would often go back to work in the evenings putting in 2 or 3 hours, it wasn't uncommon to find my at work on Saturdays putting in anywhere from 4 to 8 hours and if I had to guess I would say my average hours for any week was 50 but I got paid for 40. But I never felt cheated, nobody asked me to work the extra hours or even hinted that I should, I did it all on my own working hard to master my craft.
But this "work ethic", something I still have, served me well, by the mid 80's my W-2 had $45,000 on it and calculating for inflation $45,000 then (1985) would be equivalent to $94,501.67 in today's debauched dollars.
Yeah, even I got shafted. In terms of purchasing power, adjusted for inflation, while I earn more than $45,000 today, I work for $20,000 less today than I did in 1985 so go figure.
Shouldn't have written that, now I feel all depressed, used and shafted.
If you're a 20 something this is where we fail to see eye to eye, where it is impossible for you to link with my values. I talk of work ethic and the rewards of work ethic but you can't see this because it no longer exists in today's world. Instead we see a world where bright young people exist on $13/hr in crappy, thankless jobs working for a crappy management that must have been imported from Mars because we didn't have this in the 70's.
In short the world changed for us and in my opinion it didn't change for the better.
But if a project came up that had to be completed I would happily put in 60 hours a week while getting paid for 40 to complete it if that is what it took. I would do it because that is the way I have always been because "back then" that sort of effort paid off while it probably wouldn't today.
I would love to hire a trainee starting him off at $25/hr but I can't because competition simply wouldn't allow it. At $25 and full benefits (including fully paid medical insurance for the family) I would expect someone to display a lot of work ethic, the willingness to "go the extra mile" like I did. Instead I would have to start him off at $13/hr which is about half of what I started out with but average in the industry. In fact a little higher than average for around here.
So, my young workers, we are different but not for reasons you might think.
I think it's better to go by the individual on this one. Things have changed between our generations, but "going the extra mile" and displaying work ethic is nothing new to 20-somethings who are serious about their careers.
I've noticed a huge river of divide separating young and older workers in terms of work philosophy. I know, "work philosophy" sounds weak and while there has to be a better term it is the only one I can come up with at the moment.
The only jobs I had that paid hourly were those I held prior to 1973 and since that time I've always been paid an weekly salary even when I worked for myself.
When I started training for my current job, this was back in the mid 70's, I got paid a monthly salary that, adjusted for inflation, would be $4,474.53 in terms of today's dollars. For a trainee with just a high school diploma when you consider my benefits included 100% company paid health insurance for the family, paid holidays and vacation I had it pretty good in comparison to many twenty somethings today.
Imagine the applications if we advertised for someone with a high school diploma to be a trainee with a starting wage of $25.84/hr, fully paid medical insurance, paid 2 week vacation, holiday pay and a 401k where the employer matched your contribution?
This was standard back then which demonstrates how eroded the middle class has become.
No wonder today's generation doesn't have the work ethic I perceived we had "back then".
I have a personal message for the 20 something younger generation. You've really been screwed over, you will never have it as good as I had it but if you want someone to blame don't look to me, don't look to greedy corporations (they are no more greedy today than they were 40 plus years ago) but look to Washington DC where the true puppet masters of the decline live live of luxury in government. Democrat or republican it makes no difference though they want you to think it does.
So as a trainee I got my equivalent of $1,033.60 every week but I was a trainee, I was learning and as a learning trainee I worked a lot more hours than 40 "learning my craft". I would often go back to work in the evenings putting in 2 or 3 hours, it wasn't uncommon to find my at work on Saturdays putting in anywhere from 4 to 8 hours and if I had to guess I would say my average hours for any week was 50 but I got paid for 40. But I never felt cheated, nobody asked me to work the extra hours or even hinted that I should, I did it all on my own working hard to master my craft.
But this "work ethic", something I still have, served me well, by the mid 80's my W-2 had $45,000 on it and calculating for inflation $45,000 then (1985) would be equivalent to $94,501.67 in today's debauched dollars.
Yeah, even I got shafted. In terms of purchasing power, adjusted for inflation, while I earn more than $45,000 today, I work for $20,000 less today than I did in 1985 so go figure.
Shouldn't have written that, now I feel all depressed, used and shafted.
If you're a 20 something this is where we fail to see eye to eye, where it is impossible for you to link with my values. I talk of work ethic and the rewards of work ethic but you can't see this because it no longer exists in today's world. Instead we see a world where bright young people exist on $13/hr in crappy, thankless jobs working for a crappy management that must have been imported from Mars because we didn't have this in the 70's.
In short the world changed for us and in my opinion it didn't change for the better.
But if a project came up that had to be completed I would happily put in 60 hours a week while getting paid for 40 to complete it if that is what it took. I would do it because that is the way I have always been because "back then" that sort of effort paid off while it probably wouldn't today.
I would love to hire a trainee starting him off at $25/hr but I can't because competition simply wouldn't allow it. At $25 and full benefits (including fully paid medical insurance for the family) I would expect someone to display a lot of work ethic, the willingness to "go the extra mile" like I did. Instead I would have to start him off at $13/hr which is about half of what I started out with but average in the industry. In fact a little higher than average for around here.
So, my young workers, we are different but not for reasons you might think.
Good points for the most part. I think you pegged it on the overall scale, but there are surely some good employers out there that still reward hard workers. I work for a company now that couldn't care less if I put in a bunch of OT to complete a project. If anything, they'd whine that I was costing them more money (they've done this before).
I just interviewed for a company that is employee-owned. I hope for the life of me that I get this position. At least there, I know that my hard work will mean something (more money in my pocket). In my current position, I have absolutely N-O motivation anymore. After three years of dedicating myself to this employer, I have had enough of getting nowhere in my career. For people who run their business this way, I foresee that they will continue to lose their talent until they start reinvesting in their development.
Real good post Nicet4 the world has changed. The world is full of temps part time workers unpaid interns contractors ect. A full time job with benefits will become a thing of the past for most people. I have a real good work ethic. But the payoff is not there in most cases. Most jobs have no future anymore. And very few jobs are stable. Add in all the jobs we shipped overseas. It is little wonder the work ethic is dying.
Real good post Nicet4 the world has changed. The world is full of temps part time workers unpaid interns contractors ect. A full time job with benefits will become a thing of the past for most people. I have a real good work ethic. But the payoff is not there in most cases. Most jobs have no future anymore. And very few jobs are stable. Add in all the jobs we shipped overseas. It is little wonder the work ethic is dying.
It's depressingly true.
I think about what it was like 50 years ago (from other people's experiences, at least!), think about today, and then wonder how things will be 50 years from now, if I'm still alive.
Yea, says WHO???????? If you ever become 60 or older and unemployed, you'll find out VERY QUICKLY how difficult it is for the Baby Boomers of today!! Yes, finding qualified people can be a problem, but "age discrimination" is running wild out there!!
We have hired plenty of people over 60, as long as they were the most qualified employee.
People who cry 'age discrimination' are more often than not people who aren't good at their jobs and are looking for an excuse. I would say the same thing about those right out of college who claim no one is hiring younger people. Stop whining, market yourself correctly, learn the skills you need and get a job. There is a funny thing about employees who aren't good at their jobs - they always seem to have an excuse why it isn't their fault. Isn't that strange?
I think that statements where people try to paint a whole group with a broad brush are unhelpful. Some older workers are great employees and some aren't.
I will say that my experience has been that older workers have a better work ethic in general but that doesn't mean they are better employees. Older Supervisors tend to try to Manage people the "Old Fashion way" even though people now know that it is not the best way to Manage. Older Supervisors tend to use a lot of discipline even though it has been proven that discipline is a very poor motivator. They also tend to look for things that are wrong instead of problems. They require their Employees to be more regimented even though this hinders a lot of people's ability to do their jobs. Managers are taught now to work with their employees to find what makes them most productive as long as it doesn't cause issues for the company.
This has just been my experience. So in general there are good and bad things about older employees.
I could say a few things about what I highlighted in red, but I can't due to the language I'd have to use! But, I will say, this is a "bull****" statement! I will also say this......take your reply/comment below to the Retirement Forum and put it in the "Forced Into SS/Early Retirement Due To Being Unemployed" Thread" or a similar Thread and see what kind of responses you get from them! You'd be like a rabbit hopping into a den of hungry wolves.........."lunch time!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq
We have hired plenty of people over 60, as long as they were the most qualified employee.
People who cry 'age discrimination' are more often than not people who aren't good at their jobs and are looking for an excuse. I would say the same thing about those right out of college who claim no one is hiring younger people. Stop whining, market yourself correctly, learn the skills you need and get a job. There is a funny thing about employees who aren't good at their jobs - they always seem to have an excuse why it isn't their fault. Isn't that strange?
I could say a few things about what I highlighted in red, but I can't due to the language I'd have to use! But, I will say, this is a "bull****" statement! I will also say this......take your reply/comment below to the Retirement Forum and put it in the "Forced Into SS/Early Retirement Due To Being Unemployed" Thread" or a similar Thread and see what kind of responses you get from them! You'd be like a rabbit hopping into a den of hungry wolves.........."lunch time!"
The fact that a lot of people found like-minded people with which to complain does not make them right. It is also funny when you ask people in threads like that what they have done to find a job, you rarely hear of people volunteering to do pro-bono work, or volunteering to move to a different city for a job, or essentially do anything but apply for the few jobs that are open around their current home. I specifically asked one posted who is older and has been unemployed for 2+ years if he has applied for jobs outside of his town and he said "I shouldn't have to move for a job". No wonder you are unemployed with that kind of entitlement attitude.
I could say a few things about what I highlighted in red, but I can't due to the language I'd have to use! But, I will say, this is a "bull****" statement! I will also say this......take your reply/comment below to the Retirement Forum and put it in the "Forced Into SS/Early Retirement Due To Being Unemployed" Thread" or a similar Thread and see what kind of responses you get from them! You'd be like a rabbit hopping into a den of hungry wolves.........."lunch time!"
What's kind of interesting is that the older folks have played the largest role in shaping this country into what it is today. Maybe they should have planned better for themselves?
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