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Old 08-15-2011, 08:25 AM
 
1,259 posts, read 2,258,082 times
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Federal jobs are not always safe. My agency just went through a budget cut and is laying off nearly 300 people. My dad works for the federal government also and the same thing happened to his office.

And state jobs where I am from are definitely not safe. They've laid off and furloughed so many people.
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Old 08-15-2011, 09:40 AM
 
Location: In my view finder.....
8,515 posts, read 16,184,600 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
It is harder to get fired from state/fed jobs. You can sit back and screw off and have less consequences.

Today, the only job security is being extremely good at what you do.
I disagree with both of your remarks.
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Old 08-15-2011, 10:09 AM
 
9,855 posts, read 15,205,540 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron. View Post
I disagree with both of your remarks.
Please explain why.

It is a fact that it is much more difficult to get fired from federal/state jobs (as well as any union job) than a job in the private sector. If a person does not have the risk of getting fired, they act accordingly (when was the last time you saw an efficient worker in the DMV?)

And only a fool would trust the government (for federal workers) or a company (for private workers) for job security. If you want to be sure you are always employed, be GOOD at your job. Times are changing. This isn't 1985 any more.
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Old 08-15-2011, 10:18 AM
 
5,198 posts, read 5,278,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
Please explain why.

It is a fact that it is much more difficult to get fired from federal/state jobs (as well as any union job) than a job in the private sector. If a person does not have the risk of getting fired, they act accordingly (when was the last time you saw an efficient worker in the DMV?)
True. I have witnessed this first hand.
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Old 08-15-2011, 10:48 AM
 
14,400 posts, read 14,306,076 times
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The appeal of federal and state jobs is what others have already mentioned here. Federal and state employees can be terminated. However, termination has to be for cause and there are requirements that must be observed. I personally think a lot of the problem is that managers refuse to educate themselves and use the mechanisms that are available to them to get rid of bad employees. However, virtually no one has ever been terminated from the local government agency my wife works at and a fair of employees deserve to be dismissed for failing to get the job done.

The benefits that federal and state employees get are rapidly disappearing in private sectors of the economy. Very few people have a defined benefits retirement plan anymore. Yet, that exists for federal and most state/local government employees. Health insurance is not perfect, but is generally better than that available for employees in the private sector and offers more choices for the employee.

I compare my own situation (attorney in private practice) with that of colleagues who took a job with the government. This is what I am now seeing:

1. Their wages automatically increase by about 3% every year no matter how many people are unemployed, how many people lose their jobs, or no matter how much the governmental entity they work is struggling to balance its budget. (The people in charge have a good deal and they aren't about to change it no matter how much its costing the taxpayers)

2. Government wages are often relatively low when the employee takes a job. However, after years of 3% increases they catch up with most private sector employees. Benefits often mean little to young people. However, when they are old health insurance and retirement assume great importance. Its only when you are about 50 that you begin to realize that the people working for government probably ended up with a better deal than you have.

3. Government is structured to keep people in it for a long time. This is one reason why there is so little improvement in governmental services. There are few incentives in government to do anything cheaper or better. The people in government jobs will hang onto them forever because giving up their retirement or their health insurance is virtually unthinkable no matter how much the job stinks or no matter how bad supervisors are. There are reasons why the top people in government often go out of their way to avoid doing anything controversial or offending anyone. Its how they have gotten where they have.

4. Government is structured to reward people at the very top. The longer you stay in the more automatic pay increases you get. People at the top were usually born during the early years of the "Baby boom" and got where they did primarily because they were in the right place at the right time. The people at the top when forced to cut the budget will never consider cutting their own salaries or even eliminating automatic pay increases. Instead, if forced too, they will look for "economies" like cutting out the $8 an hour position for the lady who answers the phone and gives a personal touch to government. Managers earning $150,000 a year + will make the people on the bottom of the organization suffer all the pain if there are budget cuts. They'll make positions part time and eliminate benefits (while keeping theirs, of course). They'll eliminate low paid secretarial positions that are badly needed to make the organization work. They'll never eliminate a management position if they can possibly avoid it.

5. Government is often about "cronyism" despite civil service plans. I'm stunned at the number of people I've seen retire in one government job at age 52 and than go out and be hired for another government job in another government organization. Managers in local governments will always try to justify this by claiming the person was hired because they had "more experience" than other applicants. Managers will overlook applicants who have graduate degrees with honors, solid references, and good work experience to hire a "buddy" who used to work in another area of government. People are frequently hired based on pre-existing relationships they have with a manager or his friends, rather than on actual ability that an applicant demonstrates.

I'm a democrat and I root for the underdog most times. I have no objections to helping the poor and disadvantaged in society. Nevertheless, at the same time, I have become quite "anti-government". I have seen too much waste and abuse to support what goes on. I'd like to find ways to help the disadvantaged, insure environmental quality, defend our country, have good schools, and provide everyone with health insurance without making government any bigger. Above all, I'd like to avoid creating anymore government managers that earn $150,000 + per year and enjoy the benefits of a King.
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Old 08-15-2011, 02:58 PM
 
Location: The DMV
6,590 posts, read 11,288,331 times
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The private sector is normally based on competition. Businesses in itself is selling a product/service for money. So there's more focus on returns. In that sense, you either perform - or you get replaced by someone that will perform.

On the other hand - the public sector is typically providing a service based on need. There's not as much focus on performance. And I dont' mean this as no one cares about their job or how you do it. But if you compare a government entity vs. a private company - a private company can be run out of business by their competitors.... not exactly a worry that the government has.

So yes, public sector jobs are a bit more secure because you are providing a social need. And the income for the most part, is almost guaranteed through taxes. Of course.... there are also exceptions like what the USPS is going through or when government runs out of money and has to furlough staff.

However, its still more stable because in the private industry, the guys around the board room can decide to reorganize and let a bunch of people go at a whim....

At the same time - one can also draw a correlation in the motivation and drive between public and private sector workers. But this would only apply in a very general sense. I do have some extremely driven friends that work in the public sector.
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Old 08-15-2011, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,823 posts, read 24,908,096 times
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The job security is unmatched by the private sector. Although the pay was traditionally less in the past, the security made up for it in times like these. The opposite is now true with regards to pay. Most federal employees are better compensated than their private sector equivalents. There has been a huge rush of airline pilots trying to fly for Fedex as of late, and many other similar examples. Kind of ironic, and a good measure of how far the private sector has fallen. Of course, that job security has been evaporating as of late, with the government looking to trim some fat.
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Old 08-15-2011, 04:09 PM
 
3,739 posts, read 4,635,616 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
If you want to be sure you are always employed, be GOOD at your job. Times are changing. This isn't 1985 any more.
Lots of people that were good at their job lost them. There is no job security even if you are good at your job.
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Old 08-15-2011, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,823 posts, read 24,908,096 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopefulone View Post
Lots of people that were good at their job lost them. There is no job security even if you are good at your job.
Very true. You can be very efficient at a job, but if the job itself becomes obsolete, so do your skills and years of experience.
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Old 08-15-2011, 06:02 PM
 
5,500 posts, read 10,520,957 times
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Having worked in finance in both I'd say the main difference is the work atmosphere. Better benefits and a better understanding of work/life balance compared to the private sector.
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