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Inspired by another thread in which the recruiter was annoyed that someone asked what the pay was during the interview.
Can we just be honest for a sec and admit that the #1 reason why most of us are even in the job market is because we need to GET PAID. So the amount of pay is usually very, very important to job seekers.
Sure, many of us know you shouldn't ask while being interviewed, but why??? Because it makes you look more motivated by money? Of course we are!!!! Are you afraid we wouldn't apply otherwise? That saves us both time! This is a money-driven society and you cannot have a life without it. People are not looking for jobs for personal fulfillment, its cause they have bills to pay.
So why:
- do we see job postings without pay ranges (whenI was looking most did not disclose pay)?
- can't people ask right out what the pay is?
- have to wait until the offer comes in to learn what the pay is?
- is pay/salary such a hugely guarded secret?
Why can't we all just be upfront about this? When I got my current job (which was advertised with no pay and it never brought up during interviewing) I was a big stunned when offered the low salary and even more stunned when I found out it was their cap and non-negotiable. I took it but had I known, perhaps I wouldn't have even applied.
Just saying why does pay have to be such a secret?
I get your point however in any environment, money continues to be one of those "inappropriate" things that we just don't talk about. It's like a taboo subject. I have no idea how much any of my closest friends and family make and vice versa.
It's just... you just don't talk about it. Or ask.
It's ridiculous. It's like u have to dance around the subject and u usually wont find out what the pay is until the end...meaning until after u phone interviewed, 2nd interviewed, and then committee interviewed.
I'm currently interviewing for a job and have no idea what the pay is...none. I've had 2 interviews so far and have no idea how much the job is worth. . If they offer me the job and I find out that the pay is not enough, I'll be pissed because I wasted my time and took off my other job to accomodate the interviews.
I agree, they act as if we're interviewing for these jobs because I simply love working, because its my passion in life is to wake up and go to work... please, i work cuz I need a cell phone, a car, electricity, movie tickets, food, internet, car insurance, etc.
I dont work for the sheer enjoyment of it, thats why they call it "work" and not "fun"
Just imagine if we did ALL our shopping this way. You don't know how much something is until after you've stood in line for a few hours, or in this case, weeks. LOL
It doesn't make any sense for the employee. It makes all the sense in the world to the employer, who obviously wants to hold the majority of the bargaining chips. That's why it's best to play them against each other when it comes time to negotiate.
"Well, company A over here will pay me X, and you're only going to pay me Y, so I may need to take some more time to consider this." 90% of the time it works every time.
Inspired by another thread in which the recruiter was annoyed that someone asked what the pay was during the interview.
Can we just be honest for a sec and admit that the #1 reason why most of us are even in the job market is because we need to GET PAID. So the amount of pay is usually very, very important to job seekers.
Sure, many of us know you shouldn't ask while being interviewed, but why??? Because it makes you look more motivated by money? Of course we are!!!! Are you afraid we wouldn't apply otherwise? That saves us both time! This is a money-driven society and you cannot have a life without it. People are not looking for jobs for personal fulfillment, its cause they have bills to pay.
So why:
- do we see job postings without pay ranges (whenI was looking most did not disclose pay)?
- can't people ask right out what the pay is?
- have to wait until the offer comes in to learn what the pay is?
- is pay/salary such a hugely guarded secret?
Why can't we all just be upfront about this? When I got my current job (which was advertised with no pay and it never brought up during interviewing) I was a big stunned when offered the low salary and even more stunned when I found out it was their cap and non-negotiable. I took it but had I known, perhaps I wouldn't have even applied.
Just saying why does pay have to be such a secret?
yeah I totally agree - Even going for jobs the employer is always looking for you to define the pay rate - job agencies are looking for you to name your rate. Sometimes they give you a rate - but perhaps its on the low end - and their looking for you to negotiate - but then negotiation might be seen as cheeky if there giving you the top end.
You never have an idea if your going to too low or too high - its difficult to compare like for like. Then there is the old argument of do the "research" - how do you do the research based on limited information? Go to salary.com - how do you know the data is correct, it does not take into individual industries etc, the state of the market, ask other people - if they tell you are they telling the truth.
Spoken to job agencies, and asked them to define pay rates for different jobs - since you would think they have all the information, see different CVs and can look at experience and skill levels, plus one job title can mean a different thing every company - they would the best people to answer the question - but there always sketchy and vague, and still put the question back to you.
I guess it comes down to companies and people trying to protect their information and competition, Information is power - and the more information you have the more of a leg up you have in negotiating, and know what you need to do to succeed.
Think about it this way - have you ever had a boss who discusses money, specifics - and what you need to do get paid more, giving you a map of what exactly there looking for - and if you do this then you can get a higher salary.
If you were running a business, do you think a client or another business owner is going to give the specifics of what they charge, how they get their employees, what they pay them, what they have done to earn this, all their commerical secrets for you to just copy - not likely they will give you no help or no information - as they have worked hard to figure all this out - why should they give it to you for free?
Last edited by mikeyking; 09-30-2011 at 11:19 AM..
Reason: update
You never have an idea if your going to too low or too high - its difficult to compare like for like. Then there is the old argument of do the "research" - how do you do the research based on limited information? Go to salary.com - how do you know the data is correct, it does not take into individual industries etc, the state of the market, ask other people - if they tell you are they telling the truth.
Spoken to job agencies, and asked them to define pay rates for different jobs - since you would think they have all the information, see different CVs and can look at experience and skill levels, plus one job title can mean a different thing every company - they would the best people to answer the question - but there always sketchy and vague, and still put the question back to you.
Yes!
It is hard to research the market due to everything you mentioned. You can't even always tell what level the job is on based on titles anymore.
At a previous job a marketing coordinator was an entry-level position while a Marketing Specialist was a mid-level position. I had a phone interview for a Communications Specialist position that was going well until she asked my pay expectations. When I gave her my range she quickly told me that was much too high and upbruptly ended the call. Apparently the specialist position they were looking for was more entry-level. Well, had that info been posted on the job posting, I would have know before scheduling and prepping for the call.
And doing online searches like on Glassdoor doesn't give you much info unless people have logged on and shared their info. But no one wants to say.
Inspired by another thread in which the recruiter was annoyed that someone asked what the pay was during the interview.
Can we just be honest for a sec and admit that the #1 reason why most of us are even in the job market is because we need to GET PAID. So the amount of pay is usually very, very important to job seekers.
Sure, many of us know you shouldn't ask while being interviewed, but why??? Because it makes you look more motivated by money? Of course we are!!!! Are you afraid we wouldn't apply otherwise? That saves us both time! This is a money-driven society and you cannot have a life without it. People are not looking for jobs for personal fulfillment, its cause they have bills to pay.
So why:
- do we see job postings without pay ranges (whenI was looking most did not disclose pay)?
- can't people ask right out what the pay is?
- have to wait until the offer comes in to learn what the pay is?
- is pay/salary such a hugely guarded secret?
Why can't we all just be upfront about this? When I got my current job (which was advertised with no pay and it never brought up during interviewing) I was a big stunned when offered the low salary and even more stunned when I found out it was their cap and non-negotiable. I took it but had I known, perhaps I wouldn't have even applied.
Just saying why does pay have to be such a secret?
I agree that companies should be more open with their pay scales and I don't think it is inappropriate to send an email asking for a pay scale.
I think the post you are referring to was questions asked by the applicant at the end of an interview. I don't see why it is an appropriate question in that context. An interview is usually a social interaction to determine an individual's fit for a job. The questions you ask should be about the job and/or the organization it comes off as being self-interested. The only question you could come up with was about the pay? I would definitely think an individual that went through a 30 minute interview and only had a question about the pay was disinterested in the position and company and was only there for a paycheck.
But again, if you inquire about the position and ask what the salary range is before the interview (self-selection) I don't really see that as inappropriate.
Just saying why does pay have to be such a secret?
Because many employers are cheap and only want the cheapest applicant they can find.
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