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Old 10-11-2011, 12:44 PM
 
166 posts, read 195,591 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by statisticsnerd View Post
Amen.

My grandfather was a tobacco salesman with a HS education, and he didn't have any problems supporting his family. His wife never worked either.

College is an extended vacation for most kids. They spend 4-6 years partying and sleeping in every day, and most end up with a useless fluff degree. Unless you become something along the lines of a doctor, attorney, accountant, or lawyer, a college education is hardly the key to becoming rich. Most college students accumulate $20k-$40k in debt and get a mediocre job after graduating, so I really don't see how the cost-benefit relationship is all that great unless you are pursuing a solid profession. And let's face it, most kids really aren't material for a professional career as an engineer, doctor, lawyer, etc.
Even most entry level jobs require a degree now. Right now with how the education system is set up, they are forcing college on students (and the parents are pushing it also). Everyone wants "better" for their children. Many who had good/stable manufacturing/skilled service jobs wanted their children to have less strenuous office jobs. Some were able to see that manufacturing/skilled service jobs will always be needed and kept it in the family (but more and more, the numbers are disappearing across the U.S.).

With the way Political Correctness is today, everyone wants to believe they are special. People talk about not having enough doctors/engineers/skilled fields, but one of the problems is the thought that more degrees=better quality. Teachers know all it takes is one disinterested student to drag other students around them into trouble.

So you have 3 main types of students:
Those who will always achieve because they take pride in their work.
Those who will do enough to get by (because they see the troublemakers able to get by and don't see why they should try any harder then they have to)
Those who are troublemakers, but do the work so that they stay in school.

There are other students who try their best (but this group is getting smaller).

I believe for there to be more best/brightest, the U.S. should adopt an education system like Germany. People think in different ways. Some will excel at Sciences, others Math, and still others building/working with their hands. With the education system in the U.S., they are taking these opportunities away, creating a one size fits all system.

The problem would be if a system like this was implemented, people would complain that it would be going to a class system/discriminatory. When in reality it would get rid of the fluff degrees. If you want the college education, you will have to work for it. Everyone learns differently, but each person would hold the responsibility where they end up based on how hard they work. This system would theoretically challenge the students, bringing out their best work.

This would also have the potential for parents to be more active in the education of their children.

It is interesting with the trend of how schools and parents are calling for more homework/work. More work does not necessarily mean better results and is not the only way of teaching. Being in social settings and playing team sports can teach different concepts/problem solving than just bookwork. I feel like some children are under such pressures and trying to do so much, that they are not necessarily getting burnt out, but not reaching their true potential.
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, New York
3,246 posts, read 3,287,491 times
Reputation: 2821
Some people simply enjoy the pursuit of knowledge. I loved college and wish I could afford to get another degree. I went as an adult, which may be the difference, and loved every minute of it.
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Earth
3,526 posts, read 1,847,293 times
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Technically there's nothing stopping anyone from picking up books and reading whatever subject they desire, if the acquisition of knowledge is the driving force. I've got textbooks at home on a variety of subjects, none of which have anything to do with my day to day job. I merely like to learn and going to college isn't the only way to do so. What I don't like about the push to tertiary education, is this elitist attitude where people with degrees are 'better' than people without. It's almost as if people are absolutely incredulous if you say you don't have a degree. Which I find odd, aren't there more people without degrees than with?
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Old 10-11-2011, 02:34 PM
 
2,286 posts, read 1,016,559 times
Reputation: 1669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
Technically there's nothing stopping anyone from picking up books and reading whatever subject they desire, if the acquisition of knowledge is the driving force. I've got textbooks at home on a variety of subjects, none of which have anything to do with my day to day job. I merely like to learn and going to college isn't the only way to do so. What I don't like about the push to tertiary education, is this elitist attitude where people with degrees are 'better' than people without. It's almost as if people are absolutely incredulous if you say you don't have a degree. Which I find odd, aren't there more people without degrees than with?
You sound bitter. If people act elitist towards you, just ignore them. If you are doing well in your professional career, then what is the big deal? Why the cynicism and bitterness towards the idea of pursuing more education in a college setting?

Sometimes education is more than just picking up a tutorial and going from step A to step B. It also has a lot to do with learning how to think more critically and problem solving. The fact is, if you are learning on your own, then you don't have anybody critiquing you or your ideas. That often leads to stubbornness, arrogance, and/or lack of understanding. Then you risk becoming the cynical jacka** know-it-all that nobody can stand.

Pursuing education leads to an understanding of how little you truly know about the world. Doing so in a public setting (classroom) puts you on the spot and makes you think about how others think. It gives you perspective, especially if you go to a big school with a solid rep. In those instances, you can learn a lot from a very diverse student population.

Last edited by Z3N1TH 0N3; 10-11-2011 at 02:43 PM..
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Old 10-11-2011, 03:03 PM
 
166 posts, read 195,591 times
Reputation: 66
In my post above I did not mean troublemakers as those who did not want to learn, but more as not interested in the current subject. They could have other passions than what they are forced to learn under the 'college prep' system.
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Old 10-11-2011, 03:10 PM
 
Location: where people are either too stupid to leave or too stuck to move
3,999 posts, read 2,602,842 times
Reputation: 3451
because the media lied to us and brainwashed us into thinking that if we went to college we're gonna have a better life, but now we know that all we're doing is breeding a whole new generation of buyers and sellers and indoctrinating them into a life long hell of debt and indecision
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Old 10-11-2011, 03:20 PM
 
Location: southern california
49,390 posts, read 46,007,019 times
Reputation: 40490
An inflated sense of self worth
Why else would u sign a $180,000 non dischargeable IOU only to end up a temp @ $10 an hr
These r not trade schools they r selling prestige at very high prices
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Old 10-11-2011, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Earth
3,526 posts, read 1,847,293 times
Reputation: 1531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3N1TH 0N3 View Post
You sound bitter. If people act elitist towards you, just ignore them. If you are doing well in your professional career, then what is the big deal? Why the cynicism and bitterness towards the idea of pursuing more education in a college setting?

Sometimes education is more than just picking up a tutorial and going from step A to step B. It also has a lot to do with learning how to think more critically and problem solving. The fact is, if you are learning on your own, then you don't have anybody critiquing you or your ideas. That often leads to stubbornness, arrogance, and/or lack of understanding. Then you risk becoming the cynical jacka** know-it-all that nobody can stand.

Pursuing education leads to an understanding of how little you truly know about the world. Doing so in a public setting (classroom) puts you on the spot and makes you think about how others think. It gives you perspective, especially if you go to a big school with a solid rep. In those instances, you can learn a lot from a very diverse student population.
You are amazingly off in your assessment of my earlier comment. I've been to University, so there's no bitterness on my end. And I plan on furthering my education when finances permit. But I have encountered people who I can only describe as 'academic snobs'( and yes I do ignore them. Pity them for their over-inflated sense of self-importance as well). That's what I'm referring to above, nothing to do with being bitter or cynical towards collegiate education. And because I say that I enjoy reading about various topics, and that college isn't the only way to learn or take in information, doesn't mean that I have any issue with college, or that I don't understand the benefits of being in a structured learning environment as you so eloquently stated above. I simply hold no such sentiments that my level of education makes me any better than the next person. I trust that clarifies my position for you.

Last edited by Roman77; 10-11-2011 at 03:57 PM..
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Old 10-11-2011, 03:50 PM
 
2,286 posts, read 1,016,559 times
Reputation: 1669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
Boy, in the lecturing mood, are we? You are amazingly off in your assessment of my earlier comment. I've been to University, so there's no bitterness on my end. And I plan on furthering my education when finances permit. But I have encountered people who I can only describe as 'academic snobs'. That's what I'm referring to above, nothing to do with being bitter or cynical towards collegiate education. And because I say that I simply enjoy reading about various topics, and that college isn't the only way to learn, doesn't mean that I have any issue with college or people with degrees. I simply hold no such sentiments that my level of education makes me any better than anyone else. So frankly, you're well way off the mark with your comment about me being 'bitter', kindly tone it down a little thanks.
I'm just giving my assessment on what I initially read. Now that you've elaborated a bit more, it's a little easier to understand your view. I'm certainly not lecturing anybody. I'm voicing my opinion just like you did.
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Old 10-11-2011, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Earth
3,526 posts, read 1,847,293 times
Reputation: 1531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3N1TH 0N3 View Post
I'm just giving my assessment on what I initially read. Now that you've elaborated a bit more, it's a little easier to understand your view. I'm certainly not lecturing anybody. I'm voicing my opinion just like you did.
I edited my post, if you care to revisit it. I trust we now understand each other.
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