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Old 03-07-2012, 12:54 PM
 
43,011 posts, read 107,605,736 times
Reputation: 30709

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lee9786 View Post
PT is no better. They'd like to think with their DPT it's going to do something, but the reality is neither Payors or the Public recognize their Market value at what they have priced themselves at. I think the APTA is in fantasy acadamia land. It's not a good sign when grads are graduating with over $100K debt and the target population complains about $20 copays. It's an ancillary (secondary) service. No way no how does this justify the Physician-type loans kids are getting themselves into.
It is overpriced when you consider that multiple appointments are needed per week. Our copay is $50 for specialists. That's $150 per week for physical therapy 3 times a week out of our pocket in addition to the premium payments and deductibles. It's no wonder insurance companies do whatever they can to avoid paying for physical therapy.

Think about it. $150 per week @ 6 months is $3600. Say insurance premium payments are $400/month so that's $2400 paid out for just having health insurance during that 6 months. Together that's $6000 paid for health insurance and 3 day per week physical therapy visits for 6 months. In addition, that doesn't even take the deductible into consideration. If there is a $2000 individual deductible, we're looking at $8000 (3600 + 2400 + 2000) to have health insurance and physical therapy appointments for 6 months.

When people pay for health insurance, they expect health insurance to cover visits and treatment so of course they will complain. It's not just $20, $30 or $50. It's that amount multiplied by multiple times per week for multiple weeks. Patients get screwed financially with physical therapy because it's a service that's needed more often than a typical specialist visit which is usually once a month or just a couple times per year at most.

And what's sad about it is it's a vital service that should be utilized more often. So many illnesses and injuries can be resolved quickly with just a few physical therapy visits. Postponing treatment can end up meaning surgery and 6 months or more for physical therapy.
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Old 03-07-2012, 03:00 PM
 
44 posts, read 65,897 times
Reputation: 36
Come on people please don't threadjack.. I didn't actually ask what everyone thinks of high tuition or the field of PT as a whole.

I asked if anyone ever went from being a PTA to an OT. Thanks.
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Old 03-07-2012, 03:39 PM
 
43,011 posts, read 107,605,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFLANYSFLA View Post
Come on people please don't threadjack.. I didn't actually ask what everyone thinks of high tuition or the field of PT as a whole.
I think we were all very clear that we think it's insane for you to go the expensive route.
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Old 03-07-2012, 03:47 PM
 
44 posts, read 65,897 times
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I know I know but where I live new grad PTA's take home 5k a month after taxes lol.
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Old 03-07-2012, 03:58 PM
 
43,011 posts, read 107,605,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFLANYSFLA View Post
I know I know but where I live new grad PTA's take home 5k a month after taxes lol.
And that's why we were talking about changes in the healthcare and insurance industries. That high pay might not last forever so don't waste money on the expensive education because you might be forced to re-educate yourself in the future. So it's not off topic. We're trying to give you as much information as possible to hel you with your decision. 5k a month after taxes isn't a lot of money as kids get older. If you can make more than that as a PT, do the extra schooling even if you have to postpone working for a couple more years.
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Old 03-07-2012, 04:16 PM
 
6,822 posts, read 6,595,449 times
Reputation: 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
It is overpriced when you consider that multiple appointments are needed per week. Our copay is $50 for specialists. That's $150 per week for physical therapy 3 times a week out of our pocket in addition to the premium payments and deductibles. It's no wonder insurance companies do whatever they can to avoid paying for physical therapy.

Think about it. $150 per week @ 6 months is $3600. Say insurance premium payments are $400/month so that's $2400 paid out for just having health insurance during that 6 months. Together that's $6000 paid for health insurance and 3 day per week physical therapy visits for 6 months. In addition, that doesn't even take the deductible into consideration. If there is a $2000 individual deductible, we're looking at $8000 (3600 + 2400 + 2000) to have health insurance and physical therapy appointments for 6 months.

When people pay for health insurance, they expect health insurance to cover visits and treatment so of course they will complain. It's not just $20, $30 or $50. It's that amount multiplied by multiple times per week for multiple weeks. Patients get screwed financially with physical therapy because it's a service that's needed more often than a typical specialist visit which is usually once a month or just a couple times per year at most.

And what's sad about it is it's a vital service that should be utilized more often. So many illnesses and injuries can be resolved quickly with just a few physical therapy visits. Postponing treatment can end up meaning surgery and 6 months or more for physical therapy.
The entire healthcare system is backwards. It waits until conditions become Acute/Emergency. There's little accountability and incentive-based compensation. The healthcare bill was about Special Interests not Patient Care.

Obesity is the #1 problem health problem in this country. Why incentives aren't tied into premiums/copays for losing/maintaining a healthy weight is beyond me. Why there isn't more incentive based compensation in the system is beyond me. It defies logic. Studies well confirm that Obesity is a costly health issue (cosmetics isn't the big issue.) Secondary to this is everything from heart disease, through diabetes, to back pain. So the whole reform thing was a bust.

Physical Therapy costs are a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of the system. I think it's ~2 percent of Medicare B expenses (outpatient), and they are getting cut. The AMA consists mainly of Specialists - mostly in Surgery. It costs like 60 million or something for Spinal Fusion surgery which is found to be dangerous and ineffective (actually patients get worse). No problem with insurance paying for it though.

Really there's no reason Physical Therapy should cost so much either. It cost so much because the training is out of control expensive and all healthcare costs are escalated by Medicare payment distortion. Basically when the Government comes in and sets what the market pays, it messes the whole thing up. Surprised? There is a laundry list of how this has happened to a number of sectors.

Look for the Healthcare bill to monopolize insurance even more.
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Old 03-07-2012, 04:21 PM
 
6,822 posts, read 6,595,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFLANYSFLA View Post
I know I know but where I live new grad PTA's take home 5k a month after taxes lol.
That's true, up until July 5th or so when RC 3-11 goes into effect. While I was training for the DPT, I came across the Debt:Income ratio of PT:PTA. Slam dunk PTA was by FAR a better deal. I'm thinking... Why is ANYONE going for the PT? To bare the responsibility and do the paperwork?

Long story short, the APTA messed up making PTAs virtually equivalent to PTs in getting compensated for treatments. Same billing code. The Government doesn't recognize degree, only certification.

2 year degree coming out with 10k (where I was looking to go) versus a 6 year (at least) degree coming out with for most over 100k. Not even close.

The days of PTAs making so much are behind us though. The DPTs are a little perturbed their Assistants that have been riding coat tails are grossing more income than they are with their mountain high loans starting families while they are living with parents paying down loans. Thus the RC 3-11.

If none of it makes any sense, it's because none of it makes any sense.
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Old 03-07-2012, 04:54 PM
 
44 posts, read 65,897 times
Reputation: 36
Oh my goodness thank you guys for bringing this to my attention! I will not be doing PTA, esp. at that price tag. I just didn't understand so i thought it didn't apply to me sorry

OT for me, slowly but surely!
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Old 03-07-2012, 05:19 PM
 
6,822 posts, read 6,595,449 times
Reputation: 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
It is overpriced when you consider that multiple appointments are needed per week. Our copay is $50 for specialists. That's $150 per week for physical therapy 3 times a week out of our pocket in addition to the premium payments and deductibles. It's no wonder insurance companies do whatever they can to avoid paying for physical therapy.

Think about it. $150 per week @ 6 months is $3600. Say insurance premium payments are $400/month so that's $2400 paid out for just having health insurance during that 6 months. Together that's $6000 paid for health insurance and 3 day per week physical therapy visits for 6 months. In addition, that doesn't even take the deductible into consideration. If there is a $2000 individual deductible, we're looking at $8000 (3600 + 2400 + 2000) to have health insurance and physical therapy appointments for 6 months.

When people pay for health insurance, they expect health insurance to cover visits and treatment so of course they will complain. It's not just $20, $30 or $50. It's that amount multiplied by multiple times per week for multiple weeks. Patients get screwed financially with physical therapy because it's a service that's needed more often than a typical specialist visit which is usually once a month or just a couple times per year at most.

And what's sad about it is it's a vital service that should be utilized more often. So many illnesses and injuries can be resolved quickly with just a few physical therapy visits. Postponing treatment can end up meaning surgery and 6 months or more for physical therapy.
Considering the bold part, I'm going to suggest this is another component that has contributed to Health care costs being so high. Consumers have given the reigns over to the insurance companies to pay for everything under the Sun. These companies are monstrosities now and way out of control. Insurance should be just that - Insurance. When the market shifts from paying from consumer to provider to consumer to insurance company to provider, costs go up.

People think they can't pay because of the cost, but the reality is the reason why it costs so much is because they aren't paying (the insurance companies are paying inflating the cost). If insurance was being used for just that, insurance, premiums would be much lower. More people would opt for insurance. The reason young people don't want insurance is because they don't want to pay a small mortgage payment for something they think they won't need to use.

It's complex and dynamic, but the bill didn't get it done.
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Old 03-07-2012, 11:47 PM
 
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 22,942,033 times
Reputation: 36026
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernBelleInUtah View Post
That's a ridiculous amount of money for tuition! If it was Harvard, OK. But it isn't. Ask around how their graduates are perceived. In my field, I know of several directors who won't even consider a grad from a professional school.
I totally concur ... In fact, many employers do not regard those programs very well and you might wind up with a useless degree. Although it is frustrating having to wait for admission into a community college's PTA program, it is so worth it as the program is more likely to be accredited.
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