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The unskilled do not have lots of options, Wartrace, never have. $8 an hour will not regularly fill slots, but a few dollars higher , and in the unskilled labor market, you will always fill your open slots.
That era you look back on fondly was the end of an anomoly. Post WWII, we had NO competition. The 1st world was in ruins. That attitude of not controlling costs persisted through the 70s and 80s in many industries. Thankfully, as The Japanese cleaned our clocks taking auto market share, and steel corps went bankrupt with equity players buying them, and airlines going through bankruptcy, union contracts and unskilled labor wages were reset, and for the first time, there was an almost universal and overdue long-term premium for education, training, and skills.
20 years ago I started working for my former employer at 15 bucks an hour. I saw the same job posted a month or two ago at 12 dollars an hour.
In case you are wondering REAL purchasing power has declined by over 30% in the past ten years alone.
I am not saying it is right or wrong but why on EARTH would anyone settle for such a low wage if they had ANY OTHER OPTION available? Why would a person enter a dead end job at a ****-poor wage if they could do ANYTHING else?
Maybe these young people realize that manufacturing is a losing proposition in the long run? Sure, today there is a "need" for specialized skills but what happens when those skills are no longer needed? They end up with 10 to 15 years of experience in "Horse buggy whip manufacturing" and nowhere to go....
Would you advise your kids or grand kids to take a 14 dollar an hour manufacturing job when they grow up?
Wartrace, The types taking $12-$14 an hour factory jobs are NOT the skilled, experienced, manufacturing workers but the relatively unskilled kids. Now they do have other options, Wal Mart, McD's, etc. But seriously, did it not occur to you the out of sync wage was the $15 an hour starting unskilled wage 20 plus years ago, when degreed office professionals were not always making that?
It had to adjust to reality; hence , the two tier system was born.
Nothing wrong with BOTH adults working. It should always have been that way, and in an era with 50% divorcing, I do not want the kids in any of my extended family raised where only ONE adult has earning power. Too risky.
I think this isn't mentioned enough these days. Having only one person with earning power is a HUGE risk in today's economy. I'm not saying you have to both work but if someone is staying home they really should have a degree/skill that can get them back in the workforce without much trouble if needed.
Yes, one might conclude that if one were to miss the point I was trying to make. We are seeing decreasing wages while at the same time the purchasing power of a dollar is also in decline. This is not good for the overall economy.
My mention of these poor saps working the 8 dollar an hour factory jobs is particularly distressing- these people are no longer "tax payers" but rather dependent upon the taxpayer. They are no longer consumers but rather "surviving". With wage declines in a lot of sectors what are we to expect for the overall economy?
Wartrace, Todays smart $8 sap (your demeaning term) will increase their skill sets via working, and earn much more in the future. Most people earn many times their first salary as the years progress.
Actually, Gatornation, they have to work, at least off and on, using those skills, or they are largely not marketable anyway. Now some can telecommute, at least for portions of the week, or year. Some can work part-time professionally. But its wise to truly keep ones feet wet, and that means one must have current employment experience.
Things are changing too fast to assume one can get a degree in anything, work 3 years, be a stay at home 100% for 5-10 years, and just come back from 0 to 60 w/o issue. But again, many corps welcome alternatives to full-time with benefit professionals, so p/t, or telecommuting is often a match made in Heaven for both.
No. Probably closer to $400 in today's dollars, but you'd get a 13" B&W for that.
$400 in 1960s roughly $2500-$2800 nowadays for a puny color tv...like I said not really a fair comparison.
Flying these days is cheaper by an order of magnitude from back then, and with less time off its almost needed.
Lots of things cost much less, inflation related, than they do now. My 1960s Craftsman ratchets were $50 in todays $$ but a new one from Sears now is $15.
Used to be it only took one job to support a family.....just sayin....
We don't live in that time anymore. The push for equality opened the flood gates for women in the work place. Naturally, the labor market rates adjusted to a level where it required 2 people to live comfortable for most lower level type jobs, and even many mid level jobs. Not only that, with progressive tax rates, even many folks making more still require a second part time income to live comfortably in many places. The country has changed, and we have to change with it.
We also have slave wage nations to compete with. That means manufacturing has to change with the times, which it has done a superb job of doing in my opinion. We run machines at our shop that can produce parts well into the thousands in a typical 8 hour shift. A poor soul in China simply cannot compete using 30 year old technology, which many of the Chinese came here to buy on the auction block. Staying competitive today requires great investment on the part of the business owners. New machinery can cost half a million dollars easily, but it is required to beat the Chinese. Add skilled tradesman with a passion for doing high quality work, and our country is doing extremely well in the manufacturing trades. In my department, we don't make any parts that sell for over $4 a piece, yet we have not had a month since I've been there that we didn't hit the 1/4 million dollar mark. China is the last thing on anyone's mind, it's more like the shops filling their ranks with illegals that one should be concerned about.
And regarding those $8/hr unskilled labor positions... Yup, thank your government for the porous boarders and lack of enforcement. I don't run drill presses for a living, so it doesn't effect me though. Those jobs are reserved for the illegals in many shops. This stuff needs to be dealt with by force! Shop owners don't pay more than $8/hr though because that is what the labor market rates are. Unfortunately, the market will not bare $12/hr for an army of secondary operation workers. Kick all the illegals out, watch the wages and the prices tick up, and problem solved. I wouldn't advise anyone taking one of those slave wage jobs doing secondary work. Many shops will gladly take a young person and introduce them into the skilled trade side of the job and actually teach. I know many young people in their 20's competing for minimum wage fast food jobs. Why? Many shops would gladly take them in at $10-$12, give them overtime if they are smart, and give them raises along the way. Not to mention actual benefits including health insurance! Why would anyone with a brain choose flipping burgers instead?
There are actually a few new guys at the shop I work at doing exactly what I suggest. One was a server for 7 years, and another was an HVAC tech. Guess what they are saying to me? They can make more money doing this than anything else that's out there today, and they actually have some upside potential in a real career. You won't get rich doing the work, but it's a job that needs to get done.
Wartrace, Todays smart $8 sap (your demeaning term) will increase their skill sets via working, and earn much more in the future. Most people earn many times their first salary as the years progress.
$8/hr with opportunity to learn and advance for a 16 or 17 year old is not anything to belittle. For a 20-something that needs to support themselves, it just doesn't work. None the less, if you want to earn more, you must have skills and knowledge in this day and age. Starting on the shop floor 7 years ago, I was working for $14/hr at a union shop. Today, that same job is paying $12/hr, and offers no OT. At the non union shop I'm at, that same job is probably going for $9/hr. That should be even more motivation to learn everything you can early, and gain as much experience as possible. For someone lacking motivation, manufacturing is a terrible career choice.
At my last job, I was working with two machinists making +$30/hr in a tool crib. Guess what wage they started at when they were 18? 15 cents above the minimum wage at the time. I don't think manufacturing has changed quite so much as our expectations of employment, particularly the wages. The wages in most non union shops have always sucked for unskilled labor and young people just starting out.
Why would wages for non skilled not be low? The reality is, one should not be unskilled long-term. If one is in that state for extended periods, that should be the cause for concern,
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