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Can't you just order study guides off the Internet or something and cram for the tests? Passing the NICET tests is all that is needed to become certified, right? If that's the case, it seems like tuition at these CCs would be a waste of money.
No, doesn't work like that.
You need a verifier just to take the test. Simply filling out the application and sending it in with the money won't get you a slot.
On page 8 of the application to test you need a verifying to sign off that you have required experience level. Not just anyone can verify; the verifier must be a Level III or IV technician or, since NICET is a non-profit division of the National Society of Professional Engineers, a licensed professional engineer can also verify.
Get as creative as you will I very much doubt you would find anyone to verify the work experience since lying is cause for the permanent revocation of certification or PE registration. Who would risk their career for this? Would you?
Then there is the recommender for certification who must also be Level III, IV or a professional engineer that personally knows your history. Also note the verifier and recommender can not be the same person. When I applied I had to get two different professional engineers to sign off for me.
And I know from personal experience NICET makes the phone calls to verify everything and everybody.
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As a side note, I noticed that a lot of these jobs require the ubiquitous "2 years of experience." I guess that's where "creative" resume and reference skills come in handy.
Not really. Up to two years of school in a related area of study qualifies for up to two years experience level. At graduation the applicant has 21 months experience and Level I certification and with that companies will hire them at 21 months just to latch on.
I have had pretty good luck writing an e-mail to companies I want to work for, and just asking if they are in need of someone with my experience. The worst they can say is no, or they can not respond at all. Anyways, all it costs is the time. Recently, I have been toying with the idea of moving south. Been living in the midwest all my life, and want to experience something new. After sending out some e-mails to companies in my line of work, I have two interviews in the next couple weeks. One in Florida, and one in North Carolina. All it took was a well thought out e-mail and my time. And be sure to copy and paste the text so you can resend it to other companies you are interested in down the road.
this seems like a great idea.. work is so much more enjoyable if you actually like the company. I've tended to look for roles I like, regardless of company. but being in an industry you like can make a huge difference.
I have always favored taking federal civil service tests, and it's best if you're open to what areas of the country you'd consider (remember, it might only be your first job, not forever).
I took them when I dropped out of college, and there was a specific test for people with two years of college. I specified the Boston area, as I thought I might move there. One and half years later, suddenly I start getting a bunch of phone calls for, at the time, entry jobs in the Social Security offices around Boston. The same week, after all that time of waitressing and factories and stuff, I got a great job that required passing several relevant tests.
A friend a year older than me majored in pre-med and got poor grades, because it really wasn't her strong suit- she just wanted to "be a doctor." So she didn't get into any medical schools, applied to law schools, but her grades were... too low.
She waitressed for a couple of years in misery. Took federal civil service and got an entry job at the FDA. She had progressively better and more responsible and interesting jobs at the FDA for some 30 years, and they put her through a Master's in Public Health at Johns Hopkins.
Her FB page now indicates that she retired. A great career thanks to federal civil service.
You just don't know what will come up, and it's great to have it ticking away in the background as a possibility.
I have always favored taking federal civil service tests, and it's best if you're open to what areas of the country you'd consider (remember, it might only be your first job, not forever).
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You just don't know what will come up, and it's great to have it ticking away in the background as a possibility.
Very informative, and I probably would not have thought of this - thank you!
No you can't, since it's extremely hard to get an analyst position in the government without a lot of experience.
Contractors require a lot of experience; the federal government hires entry-level employees all the time. The Intelligence Community just held a virtual job fair. They are having a hard time recruiting people with certain language skills. The CIA has undergraduate and graduate student programs. I'm in the screening process for an entry-level position right now, but not with the CIA. I'm also being considered for a DoD internship that pays more than the median salary in my area. The only drawback is that it's hard to get around veteran's preference.
The problem is training because of its cost and it costs a lot.
Even at the low wage of $10/hr for the first year someone new can't produce enough work to pay for themselves. For the first three to four months someone new will produce nothing of value, they are learning. For the first month a trainee would sit in an office reading and then we would talk about the work a couple hours each day.
The wage is the cheap part. We use CAD that is tailor made for the industry and the two major ones are Auto Sprink and HydraCad. I use Auto Sprink and the program cost $15,000 plus a couple hundred a month for upgrades and support. Because calculations are performed in the background the typical home computer won't do it.... figure spending $3,000 to $4,000 on the hardware. I've never played games on a computer but a guy building them for us told us what we use is a top level "gaming computer" if that is any use. First day on the job and I already have close to $20,000 invested in training. Add the cost of six months payroll plus the cost of my time, I am the companies largest single expense, and we would have at least $50,000 invested in a trainee.
The prohibitive cost is why companies don't train anymore finding it cheaper to poach.
And most of us are older because for the past 20 years there hasn't been a lot of training going on because technology has allowed us to do more.
From 1980 to 2005 the number of technicians doubled but the work output tripled.
For training there are three community colleges that have specific courses that I am aware of; Olympia, Washington, Champaign, Ill and Northeast Wisconsin Technical College. That is it and the classes are exceedingly small... we're talking 20 graduates per year.
For what it is worth Northeast Wisconsin Technical College published this "graduate success (http://www.nwtc.edu/academics/degrees/Documents/Graduate%20Followup%20pdfs/Fire%20Protection%20Engineering%20Technology.pdf - broken link)" profile.
Six months after graduation the reported salary ranges were $29,126 to $47,008. I heard industry average was $33,000 for entry level. Three to four years after graduation a salary expectation of $45,000 to $70,000 wouldn't be unreasonable depending on location. Obviously Boston would get more money than Tupelo, Mississippi.
Unfortunately about the only way to become entry level is to attend one of the three schools and they aren't cheap if you have to pay out of state tuition. On the plus side graduates will be very much in demand after graduation.
These are not your typical technical college classes and hopefully you took Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II and Trigonometry and did pretty well in high school. You are gonna need it.
So the only way in is through those specific schools? There has got to be somewhere on the east coast offering this also.
After completing the AAS degree, you will have the knowledge you need to pass the required elements for NICET Level III certification. Then go on to create the blueprints that are used on jobsites, advising the architect, engineers, and builders working on those sites. New regulations involving mandatory sprinkler systems in new construction allow you greater job security in this field.
To be very specific in any course you look at you will need to see "NICET" somewhere in the course description. If you don't see it then it isn't for you if this is the field you wish to pursue.
At Bates Community College in Washington state there is reference to NICET on the page and in this article in Fire Protection Magazine (http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/eo/CareerTraining/pdf/FireProtectionContractorMagazineAug08.pdf - broken link).
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Graduates of this two-year program earn an Associate of Technology degree and prepare for Level II testing and certification in one of the fire protection fields defined by the National Institute for Certification in Engineering Technologies(NICET). Under NICET policies, students can claim up to 18 months of academic training to-wards on-the-job time required for certification. This means that students who have passed the proper NICET testing elements may already hold NICET Level I certification upon graduation from the program.
In the same article:
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For example, a contractor on Greenman's advisory committee recently organized a project in which all 15 students worked together to design sprinkler plans for a brand new group home for at-risk youth. "These projects ensure graduates are prepared for employment at or before graduation, which helps alleviate the shortage of qualified workers in the fire protection industry," says Greenman, who says he can name at least 10 students who have been hired prior to program completion within the last six months.
Told you the classes were small.
Someone asked about the standard "two years experience" but the field is so short of qualified people companies will hire if you passed the tests and just need six months to become certified. We'll put you to work doing something just to get the time experience.
For what it is worth I know they all have jobs at graduation and I know entry wage is between $30 and $40k.
Of the four schools I am aware of that offer what is needed there's only between one and two dozen students in each. The industry estimates a minimum of 250/year are needed just to replace guys like me (I'm 64) and these schools together aren't cranking out 75/year.
If you are looking for a party school this is not it.
It seems bizarre that something like that would have training in some remote sections of the nation.
It happens to be where the instructors live and we are lucky to have the three schools that I am aware of.
The pool of prospective instructors is rather small. For example as of the end of February, 2012 California had exactly 55 Level III's and 36 Level IV's for a total of 90 fully certified technicians living in the state. That isn't many and you can probably go your entire life without meeting one.
Tyco is a classic, notice "Bachelor degree preferred" but that isn't what is really important to them. Given two applicants; one with a degree the other without but having NICET III or IV certification, they will pick the certification. Yeah, they would like it but what they really need is the NICET certification. As pointed out previously the DoD could care less about a bachelors degree all they care about is the Level IV certification.
Based upon the 2010 salary survey only 20.5% of certificate holders have a bachelors degree or higher which would cut the California pool down to about 18 people statewide if they want to stick with it. Good luck with that. Also, a large number of those who do hold a BS or higher are professional engineers who have NICET because it offers portability across state lines where an engineers registration does not unless there is a reciprocity agreement between two states.
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I keep searching and I came across this slight mention at a CUNY school, but it doesn't seem concrete
NICET got its start in 1961 when construction of the Interstate Highway system jumped into high gear. They needed people with experience that could test soils, concrete and asphalt and that is where they got started.
In certain areas of the country there is a severe shortage ACI/NICET technicians right now. Simply Hired shows about 1,300 NICET/ACI jobs available which might not seem like a lot until you compare the number of jobs available to the number of certificate holders.
Qualifications: Must have a valid NICET Level III certification or possess equivalent education and experience.
I really don't know what they mean by "equivalent education and experience" because New York only recognizes NICET.
According to the directory I have there's 32 holders of Nicet III or IV living in New York state. That's not a big pool of prospective applicants to wade through.
So with a like certification would you ever get rich? Probably not unless you owned a company (and where do you think many company owners come from?) but you'll always earn enough to live on. I know the average pay for a Level IV technician in Omaha, Nebraska is $73k which I don't think is all that bad for Nebraska.
Another thing to consider is compared to others finding a job is pretty easy to do. I personally know an inspector who has some personal problems and has been fired at least five times in the past three years that I know of. He's now back at the second company that fired him. Why? Because they needed an inspector and he was the only game in town.
But most important, for me anyway, I really like what I do. It's fun and most mornings when I get up I look forward to going to work. It's a game, I get paid pretty decent money to solve puzzles in an environment where I work alone.
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