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The vast majority of employers simply don't know about the need to let people go until it is upon them. The usual scenario is that the company putters along, optimistic that things are going to be fine. Then they lose a customer or the economy tanks and they have to make tough decisions.
First thing, Ill call BS on the "lose a customer" thing. If an employee is on board to directly service a particuliar client, they are already aware of their status, and if that customer goes, they probably would be expecting to get canned.
If the company simply just loses "a client", typically the only ones that "hurt" are huge ones that end up requiring laying off dozens of employees. In these cases, the company is usually highly aware that they are in danger of losing a major contract.
I currently work in contracts buddy. I know that major deals are not just dropped without repeated dissatisfaction between parties, and continuous talks on improvements. If Im buying 10 million dollars worth of parts from you, and I think Im getting jobbed on price, my first call is going to be to you, not putting out another RFP, and starting the process from the start.
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Originally Posted by cpg35223
And they certainly don't fire employees lightly, because they have to pay a great deal more in unemployment insurance.
I agree with that. Because they DONT take this lightly, usually this takes weeks or months of planning, especially when they are replacing the employee who is getting canned.
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Originally Posted by cpg35223
What's more, unless one is completely deficient in people skills, anybody with a clue knows when they're about to get the hook. When you stop getting invited to meetings, when assignments get shunted to other people, etc., that's when you update your resume. Personally, I'm guessing that the handwriting was on the wall for the OP but, because she works in the government sector, she just didn't recognize them for what they were.
I would agree that you can often see the writing on the wall. I wasnt that surprised to get canned after learning my department was being shifted, and the day after, my boss asking me to list "what I do". I actually texted my wife that day and told her I was pretty sure I wasnt going to be working there much longer.
However, you cant really make any assumptions here. Maybe the OPs employers did an absolutely excellent job of covering everything up.
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Originally Posted by cpg35223
What's more, I've fired employees both ways. I informed three different employees that their positions were going to be eliminated in three months due to lack of profitability in their section. So I'm a good guy for doing that, right?
You were a good guy for doing that actually. First job I got laid off from told us at the end of January that we wouldnt have jobs April 1st. They let us go on all the paid time we needed for interviews, and my immediate boss who also got canned (the whole office did), offered to be a reference to anyone he could.
I had a job by end of March, and I was one of the few people that stayed until the very last day.
This is opposed to the second job, which informed me ON MY LAST DAY, that I was being let go. I ended up on unemployment for a month, and if I ever get any amount of power over any of my direct chain of command from my old job, I will exact revenge.
That is the difference.
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Originally Posted by cpg35223
Guess what? None of them lifted a finger to find a new job and their productivity fell through the floor. All it did was give them three months to bad-mouth the company to their fellow employees, destroying morale in the process. One of the worst business decisions I ever made.
Of course there are going to be repercussions to not firing a person on the spot. Thats exactly what I was saying.
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Originally Posted by cpg35223
I worked in a couple of hellholes during my career. Both times I gave two weeks' notice even though I wanted badly to simply go to lunch and never come back. Why? Because the last thing one wants to be is some hot-headed guy who leaves an employer in the lurch. Nobody wants to hire that kind of person. So its stupid to cultivate that kind of reputation.
Ive left the two jobs Ive had that didnt lay me off in the lurch....hasnt caught up with me.....maybe it will, I dont know......any job I dont get because of it was well worth the satisfaction of sticking it to the man though.
If they didnt want to be left in the lurch.....maybe they should have headed my warning when I told them I took issues with having my pay frozen while we bought toys for the CEO, or when I told them I had issues being treated with a double standard, etc. Guess they failed to see the writing on the wall.
First thing, Ill call BS on the "lose a customer" thing. If an employee is on board to directly service a particuliar client, they are already aware of their status, and if that customer goes, they probably would be expecting to get canned.
If the company simply just loses "a client", typically the only ones that "hurt" are huge ones that end up requiring laying off dozens of employees. In these cases, the company is usually highly aware that they are in danger of losing a major contract.
I currently work in contracts buddy. I know that major deals are not just dropped without repeated dissatisfaction between parties, and continuous talks on improvements. If Im buying 10 million dollars worth of parts from you, and I think Im getting jobbed on price, my first call is going to be to you, not putting out another RFP, and starting the process from the start.
Phth.
This person was in charge of two accounts. This issue in question had to do with a simple franchising billing problem. All she had to do was monitor and reconcile. As it turns out, the client began unilaterally letting individual franchisees off the hook and she simply was asleep at the switch despite my repeated requests for a complete accounting. I finally came in myself and discovered the problem, which meant we were $120,000 in the hole. Meanwhile the account person was too occupied by leading the boycott of a development down her street to be bothered with it.
As far as being canned, we delivered a 70% same-store sales increase, Y2Y. So performance wasn't the issue. It was simply that the client, a rather young marketing director, thought that the solution was to their unilateral actions and thought firing us was the solution. They weren't thinking that when I sued them. Such provisions were clearly spelled out in my contract with them.
Clearly there are VARIOUS levels of management in a company. What an employee's immediate managers know may be a heck of a lot less than HR or someone higher up knows.
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All it did was give them three months to bad-mouth the company to their fellow employees, destroying morale in the process.
I work in a professional, highly educated, white color office and field. In my experience, which clearly is only from the places I've worked -- employees don't 'bad mouth' or complain about management for absolutely NO reason.
A friend of mine was promoted from being one of us workers -- to department manager -- caught in the middle between former equals and upper management -- she HATED it. So I GET that managers are between a rock and a hard place. That doesn't mean worker complaints aren't valid. Ultimately, it's the company that has the job -- if you want it you can TRY to tweak and improve conditions, but when push comes to shove what management says goes.
Which is why I HAPPILY pay my union dues, and thank goodness for representation.
I do NOT believe management at the corporate level cares one bit about workers. Lower level managers who work day-to-day with underlings may 'care' -- but ultimate they will follow the company line -- which is their job.
I don't HATE management...not at all. I just know they don't have MY best interest at heart. That's two totally different things.
As is the term "career". If you are working for someone else it is a j-o-b.
The OP should have been firing off resumes the second there was wind of extensions etc. I'd have been job hunting on breaks and lunches too.
Obviously , I was applying for jobs...but when the director comes in and says to you "I really think we are going to get this extension", and your "co-workers" talk to you about anticipation of the grant extensions approval....AND THEY KNOW YOU DIDN'T STAND CHANCE...that just sucks. This is beyond firing people because of productivity....if you have no intention of keeping a position..or in this case, going to bat for it...because you wanna use that salary money elsewhere...FINE. Just don't talk to me about the grant, and let me sit here with all of you talking and research the approval rate for 2nd grant extensions...and YOU KNOW you were NOT going to EVEN ASK TO KEEP MY JOB IN THE GRANT MODIFICATIONS!
This is so true. It doesn't matter if you work hard, follow the rules, do more than what is expected, and so on. Nobody cares. In the end, you'll be replaced with somebody younger and cheaper, or a friend or relative of the boss... or, maybe nobody at all as the company cuts out the workers so the big-wigs can afford extra houses and yachts.
I put up with 10 years of this nonsense: oh, sure - they gave me raises and promotions more often than average, told me I was great, and so on... but then when the layoffs hit, the only people shown the door were the "old people" who didn't have their heads buried up management's rear. All the idiots, crooks, and utterly useless people kept their jobs, while the hard workers were kicked out... because working hard vs. playing politics simply does not pay off these days. And people wonder why the nation is in so much trouble!
Where I worked, they had fired a bunch of people. I was one of the new crew brought in. I heard various "rumors" as to why they were gone, such as those people wouldn't do the work, they were mean, etc. Something just doesn't seem right, when some were there for over 10 years.
My boss was a relatively new boss, and he did the thing of putting his own people in.
What I find most appalling, and have been down this road before, is that they can replace you and they don't owe you any reason at any time. If people think being outside a probation period saves you, think again. It just means once you are past the probation, they have to demonstrate a reason for all the employees they let go and have to bring new ones on. But they can do it. With such a full job market to choose from, it is like a kid in a candy store.
Now we can see why quality lacks everywhere. The good worker is usually seen as a threat by an immediate boss, who has nowhere to move up to. You see bosses with less experience, etc., than some employees.
Obviously , I was applying for jobs...but when the director comes in and says to you "I really think we are going to get this extension", and your "co-workers" talk to you about anticipation of the grant extensions approval....AND THEY KNOW YOU DIDN'T STAND CHANCE...that just sucks. This is beyond firing people because of productivity....if you have no intention of keeping a position..or in this case, going to bat for it...because you wanna use that salary money elsewhere...FINE. Just don't talk to me about the grant, and let me sit here with all of you talking and research the approval rate for 2nd grant extensions...and YOU KNOW you were NOT going to EVEN ASK TO KEEP MY JOB IN THE GRANT MODIFICATIONS!
Never believe them.
Trust no one.
Look out for yourself.
They will tell you things are looking good, to keep you as long as THEY need you.
Obviously , I was applying for jobs...but when the director comes in and says to you "I really think we are going to get this extension", and your "co-workers" talk to you about anticipation of the grant extensions approval....AND THEY KNOW YOU DIDN'T STAND CHANCE...that just sucks. This is beyond firing people because of productivity....if you have no intention of keeping a position..or in this case, going to bat for it...because you wanna use that salary money elsewhere...FINE. Just don't talk to me about the grant, and let me sit here with all of you talking and research the approval rate for 2nd grant extensions...and YOU KNOW you were NOT going to EVEN ASK TO KEEP MY JOB IN THE GRANT MODIFICATIONS!
it sucks that they led you on. However, besides making you feel unappreciated, there is little real impact to the way they handled it. They should have just kept their mouth shut until after memorial day weekend rather than lead you on. The good thing is that you've known for a long time that June 29 was a possible end date and this was confirmed about a month prior. So all the job hunting and networking that you've been involved in over the past several months will pay off.
I know how you are feeling. Many of us have been there, which is why so many of us have the views we do on the situation. Its hard having it done the first time to you......here you think everyone is your friend, everyone is looking out for you, and as long as you come in and give it 100%, everything will be just fine. Hey, they might even hang out with you after work, pat you on the back, or "treat you like the team".
Truth is, and you found out the hard way, they have absolutely no problem smiling to your face while theyre twisting the knife in your back.
There continues to be a double standard for employees. We are expected to put complete trust and faith in the company, because in reality, most of us have entrusted our livelihoods to them. On the other hand, they treat you like a business expense, and care nothing of what youve invested in them.
Its a hard transition to make, but you need to make it. You simply have to treat them the same way they treat you, as a paycheck. Screw taking one for the team, screw spending your weekend working from home unpaid, screw coming in sick, screw two weeks notices, screw training your replacement. When you are finished with them, leave. Period.
Exactly. One finds some of the "friendliest folks" on the job are the ones doing you in.
There are many who will try to make someone competent look bad, to elevate themselves or pass their mistakes onto them.
Yes, all the times I came to work feeling sick, because I wanted to look good, what a waste. Doesn't matter if you are always on time, do 150%, stay up to date in your field, whatever, they will hang you out to dry when they are done with you.
You mentioned working from home on the weekend. Yes, this is a new way to get more work from employees without paying them. Considered part of your job.
One of the best lines I heard was you had to still check your employer email while you were on a vacation.
No more training replacements.
No more coming in early or staying late.
Obviously , I was applying for jobs...but when the director comes in and says to you "I really think we are going to get this extension", and your "co-workers" talk to you about anticipation of the grant extensions approval....AND THEY KNOW YOU DIDN'T STAND CHANCE...that just sucks. This is beyond firing people because of productivity....if you have no intention of keeping a position..or in this case, going to bat for it...because you wanna use that salary money elsewhere...FINE. Just don't talk to me about the grant, and let me sit here with all of you talking and research the approval rate for 2nd grant extensions...and YOU KNOW you were NOT going to EVEN ASK TO KEEP MY JOB IN THE GRANT MODIFICATIONS!
The most obvious words you are about to be canned.
NO ONE NEEDS TO WORRY ABOUT YOUR JOB. Hit the ground running.
Where I worked, they had fired a bunch of people. I was one of the new crew brought in. I heard various "rumors" as to why they were gone, such as those people wouldn't do the work, they were mean, etc. Something just doesn't seem right, when some were there for over 10 years..
These days, they don't even need a "reason" - my former employer has had 3 huge layoffs in the past 2 years based on "a lack of business." Funny how the only people they got rid of were the "old" people and those without connections - all the criminals, morons, and sociopaths are still employed there, and not a single manager was laid off, despite gutting the engineering work force. And they wonder why they are having problems winning new business - gee, I wonder! Just like you experienced, they've probably slandered my reputation, too, which will make it even more impossible for me to ever work again. 10 years of crap... 10 years of doing other people's jobs in addition to my own because the place wouldn't do anything about the losers... 10 years of promotions and awards... and it is all worth nothing. *sigh*
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