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Old 07-11-2012, 04:51 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,932,730 times
Reputation: 7314

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler123 View Post
.

1) If Obama wins, they will refuse to hire because they don't like him or his policies (the healthcare bill, etc.)

2) If Romney wins, they'll get all the deregulation and tax breaks they could ask for... and proceed to spend it on hiring sprees in China, India, etc.
(1) is certainly true, as evidenced by the last 3 years.

(2) is not known. Only time and results will tell.

Unlike you, I have not fully given up that our economy post Obama and his merry regime of anti capitalists, will improve. In time, it will get better, with far more than the treading water job reports under BHO.

Now, if one has given up, we should stop spending on things like extended ui, whose only national ROI is based on folks returning to productive employment, paying their former level of taxes. We might as well go back to 26 weeks, and have all the McJobs filled. If you or any other unemployed person has given up (and I sense from your posts you have), why should I or any other taxpayer fund your futile effort towards regaining your former economic footing?
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Old 07-11-2012, 05:05 PM
 
Location: USA
7,474 posts, read 7,018,954 times
Reputation: 12503
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
(1) is certainly true, as evidenced by the last 3 years.

(2) is not known. Only time and results will tell.

Unlike you, I have not fully given up that our economy post Obama and his merry regime of anti capitalists, will improve. In time, it will get better, with far more than the treading water job reports under BHO.

Now, if one has given up, we should stop spending on things like extended ui, whose only national ROI is based on folks returning to productive employment, paying their former level of taxes. We might as well go back to 26 weeks, and have all the McJobs filled. If you or any other unemployed person has given up (and I sense from your posts you have), why should I or any other taxpayer fund your futile effort towards regaining your former economic footing?
Wow... somebody's looking for a fight, and just when everyone was playing so nicely together!

First of all, I've already presented a mountain of evidence as to why Romney's policies won't change anything, and let's not forget that the "Do Nothing" Congress is also part of the problem. Even if Romney was something other than a flip-flopping, job-cutting corporate stooge, he couldn't achieve anything without leadership and responsibility from Congress. Are you willing to vote out your Republican buddies in Congress, or are you just going to make up some nonsense about how Obama has somehow "prevented" Congress from acting even though they are the ones who create laws (not the president) and they've spent the past 2 years doing absolutely nothing of value? And this doesn't even touch upon the complete failure of both parties in the past few decades to prevent job loss, which is something you happily ignore every time I mention it.

As for why so many people are giving up, it is because THERE ARE NO JOBS?!?! God, how much evidence needs to be dropped on your head before you figure that out? Oh, but sure - cutting unemployment benefits will magically create jobs... or maybe it'll do exactly what we're seeing today as UE benefits run out - tip the economy back into a Recession.

I'm not asking you to "fund" anything, but if you are so focused on your wallet that you cannot understand the logic of extending UE benefits in times of run-away unemployment, than you're not only rather heartless but lacking in business sense. People who are dirt poor end up depending completely upon the government and don't spend money, and thus the economy falls into a Depression. People who have the basics covered can spend money and get back on their feet, thus leading to some level of demand and job creation. If you could look past your own pocket-book for a moment and stop screaming about "dem evil Democrats!" for a while, you might understand that your fellow man is not your enemy and the Republicans are not your friends.

Last edited by Rambler123; 07-11-2012 at 05:22 PM..
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Old 07-11-2012, 05:11 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,932,730 times
Reputation: 7314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler123 View Post
First of all, I've already presented a mountain of evidence as to why Romney's policies won't change anything, and let's not forget that the "Do Nothing" Congress is also part of the problem. Even if Romney was something other than a flip-flopping, job-cutting corporate stooge, he couldn't achieve anything without leadership and responsibility from Congress... which will probably happen the first week of never. ...
LOL! It is about getting OUT of the WAY of the private sector. When we meddle in business the least, we have gotten impressive results. regulations were far weaker during the post WWII years, and we had a vibrant economy.

I'm not saying we could repeat that; we cannot. But we can do better, by treating business better. For starters, by reducing the world's 2nd highest corp tax rate, by not stopping Boeing from investing $1 BILLION in Sc, by not mandating business into feeling hoarding cash is the best option.
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Old 07-11-2012, 05:14 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,932,730 times
Reputation: 7314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler123 View Post
As for why so many people are giving up, it is because THERE ARE NO JOBS?!?! ...
So again if they are NOT trying even harder in tough times than normal times, why should the nation offer extended benefits? What is the ROI?

I sense 99.9% quit in your posts. That is not what ui is designed for.
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Old 07-11-2012, 05:27 PM
 
Location: USA
7,474 posts, read 7,018,954 times
Reputation: 12503
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
So again if they are NOT trying even harder in tough times than normal times, why should the nation offer extended benefits? What is the ROI?

I sense 99.9% quit in your posts. That is not what ui is designed for.
Hahaha... who said ANYTHING about them not "trying harder?"

Heck, even you admitted a few posts ago (maybe on some other thread) that there are 4.5 people who need work per job, which is probably optimistic considering how many job postings are fake. So, how the heck does "trying harder" fix that problem? I don't care how you shuffle the musical chairs, you still end up with 3.5 people out of work no matter who gets the job: you, me, the best guy, the worst guy, the best looking person... it doesn't matter. So, what's your solution? Just let those remaining people die on the streets? Hell, there aren't even enough Mcjobs for everyone... And, no, cutting UE benefits isn't going to magically create jobs.

Getting out the way of business? Oh, you mean like the Housing Bubble - yeah, that turned out great. We let big business do whatever it wanted for about a decade, and they ran roughshod over everything. Big Business owns our leaders and our nation - they can basically do anything they want in this nation except buy and sell people like slaves and dump toxic waste directly into the air and water. Now, yeah, smaller businesses are getting a raw deal, but small businesses also don't own both political parties, so voting Republican vs. Democrat still doesn't help smaller businesses.

Look, I'm no fan of Obama, but you still can't address the complete failure of both parties across the past few decades to fix anything. Vote for whomever you want, but I'm really sick of "it's all Obama's fault" as if the economy didn't crash in 2008 and wasn't run off a cliff in the decades up that. Ignorance like that is exactly what the people in charge want and what keeps them in power.

Last edited by Rambler123; 07-11-2012 at 05:36 PM..
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Old 07-11-2012, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,698 posts, read 24,776,639 times
Reputation: 28383
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
LOL! It is about getting OUT of the WAY of the private sector. When we meddle in business the least, we have gotten impressive results. regulations were far weaker during the post WWII years, and we had a vibrant economy.

I'm not saying we could repeat that; we cannot. But we can do better, by treating business better. For starters, by reducing the world's 2nd highest corp tax rate, by not stopping Boeing from investing $1 BILLION in Sc, by not mandating business into feeling hoarding cash is the best option.
Corporate tax rates in this country are a huge burden. Unfortunately, those in the political realm are completely out of touch. They seem to think America offers something special. We do in some ways, but it's simply no justification for our current rate structure. People spend way too much time discussing the tax rates for the "rich" and the "poor". That stuff is absolutely irrelevant. If you attack the corporations, you will effectively eliminate a lot of potential for Americans to reach that "rich" status.

There is an awful lot of blame to go around. This Obama clown is getting a lot of attention. I don't like him any more than you do. He's completely incompetent and way in over his head. What I blame the most these days though is "status qou". If the government sees us competing in this new global age, they better start cleaning their own house and figuring out how to effectively steer this ship. There is no way to compete with countries that are offering the same thing, but at a lower burden cost.

America has an awful lot of wonderful things to offer. We have a lot of potential. Our young folks are ready to roll up their sleeves and get to work. I have no doubt that many of these kids want to work, and after going through 5 years of this crappy economy, I can only imagine they will work even harder. With this bumbling government parasite in place, none of that is going to matter.

I legitimately believe the people running this country have NO CLUE how the free market actually works. In my opinion, our elected officials are ripe with the entitlement attitude that leads one to squander wealth, ignore logic, and choose a path of sloth and minimal effort. Unfortunately, I expect very little to change.

In this country, we are absolutely hostile towards business. Don't bite the hand that feeds...
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Old 07-11-2012, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,698 posts, read 24,776,639 times
Reputation: 28383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler123 View Post
Hahaha... who said ANYTHING about them not "trying harder?"

Heck, even you admitted a few posts ago (maybe on some other thread) that there are 4.5 people who need work per job, which is probably optimistic considering how many job postings are fake. So, how the heck does "trying harder" fix that problem? I don't care how you shuffle the musical chairs, you still end up with 3.5 people out of work no matter who gets the job: you, me, the best guy, the worst guy, the best looking person... it doesn't matter.

So, what's your solution? Just let those remaining people die on the streets? Maybe they'll be nice enough to die in the woods somewhere so you don't have to see their bodies... Geez...

Getting out the way of business? Oh, you mean like the Housing Bubble - yeah, that turned out great. We let business do whatever it wanted for about a decade, and they ran roughshod over everything. In what world do you live in where government is "restricting" business? Business owns our leaders and our nation - business can basically do anything it wants in this nation except buy and sell people like slaves and dump toxic waste directly into the air and water... unless you think granting business those "rights" is going to fix the nation?

Look, I'm no fan of Obama, but you still can't address the complete failure of both parties across the past few decades to fix anything. Vote for whomever you want, but I'm really sick of "it's all Obama's fault" as if the economy didn't crash in 2008 and wasn't run off a cliff in the decades up that. Ignorance like that is exactly what the people in charge want and what keeps them in power.
I'm sorry, but there are jobs out there. Many people won't like them. They don't pay much and they involve actual work. They are available though. When I see these jobs here, they are being done by illegals. As much as I hate to say it, I think it's time Americans start invading these jobs. Send these 3rd worlders packing, and lets start doing the jobs our grandparents did.
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Old 07-11-2012, 05:57 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,932,730 times
Reputation: 7314
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
Corporate tax rates in this country are a huge burden. Unfortunately, those in the political realm are completely out of touch. They seem to think America offers something special. We do in some ways, but it's simply no justification for our current rate structure. People spend way too much time discussing the tax rates for the "rich" and the "poor". That stuff is absolutely irrelevant. If you attack the corporations, you will effectively eliminate a lot of potential for Americans to reach that "rich" status.

There is an awful lot of blame to go around. This Obama clown is getting a lot of attention. I don't like him any more than you do. He's completely incompetent and way in over his head. What I blame the most these days though is "status qou". If the government sees us competing in this new global age, they better start cleaning their own house and figuring out how to effectively steer this ship. There is no way to compete with countries that are offering the same thing, but at a lower burden cost.

America has an awful lot of wonderful things to offer. We have a lot of potential. Our young folks are ready to roll up their sleeves and get to work. I have no doubt that many of these kids want to work, and after going through 5 years of this crappy economy, I can only imagine they will work even harder. With this bumbling government parasite in place, none of that is going to matter.

I legitimately believe the people running this country have NO CLUE how the free market actually works. In my opinion, our elected officials are ripe with the entitlement attitude that leads one to squander wealth, ignore logic, and choose a path of sloth and minimal effort. Unfortunately, I expect very little to change.

In this country, we are absolutely hostile towards business. Don't bite the hand that feeds...
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Old 07-11-2012, 05:59 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,932,730 times
Reputation: 7314
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
I'm sorry, but there are jobs out there. Many people won't like them. They don't pay much and they involve actual work. They are available though. When I see these jobs here, they are being done by illegals. As much as I hate to say it, I think it's time Americans start invading these jobs. Send these 3rd worlders packing, and lets start doing the jobs our grandparents did.


This generation is not nearly as tough as the Greatest Generation, and long-term, that is the biggest obstacle we face.
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Old 07-11-2012, 05:59 PM
 
Location: USA
7,474 posts, read 7,018,954 times
Reputation: 12503
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
I'm sorry, but there are jobs out there. Many people won't like them. They don't pay much and they involve actual work. They are available though. When I see these jobs here, they are being done by illegals. As much as I hate to say it, I think it's time Americans start invading these jobs. Send these 3rd worlders packing, and lets start doing the jobs our grandparents did.
Unless the companies hiring illegals intend to actually pay living wages for those jobs, there's no reason Americans should be forced to work at jobs that won't pay their bills... that's why the illegals are here in the first place - dirt cheap labor.

Again, we are talking about demanding accountability from the people who make the decisions - the ones who hire (or don't) and the ones who choose to enforce labor laws (or choose not to because all that matters is business profits) when it comes to doing the jobs illegals currently do.

The only way this nation is going to truly recover is if those who make the decisions are held accountable for what they have done. Otherwise, we're going to be left with a poverty-stricken nation where there are nowhere near enough jobs for everyone, where people are packed together in slums, and where a solid college degree and years of meaningful industry experience *might* net you a job at McDonald's, if you lucky... and that still won't pay your bills.
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