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Hippie communities existing in the middle of capitalism with no independence? Wow, I'll pass.
What kind of independence do you want? You are pretty much free to do whatever it is you want. Heck, I'm sure you could even apply for some sort of religious institution status and be tax exempt.
What kind of independence do you want? You are pretty much free to do whatever it is you want. Heck, I'm sure you could even apply for some sort of religious institution status and be tax exempt.
Existing in capitalism requires me to BUY land and BUY resources my land doesnt have access to. Were you absent during the last 50 posts?
I do not want to be involved in capitalism. Period.
I worked in retail all through high school and college and minimum wage was like 6.50 and hour...I worked at a national chain and until I worked my way up to Assistant mgr..I then got a livable wage..Look it sucks that it's like that but it is....they would work us 29 hours a week because at 30 you were considered full time and they would have to pay benefits...companies can be slimy..but the only ones that make "liveable" wages is the manager...and even then they better have a spouse that works too...
I don't doubt that there are fellow communists out there.
It doesnt take a communist to realize that what we have is BS. Not everyone agrees with my solutions, but a great deal of people agree with my assessment of the problems.
You dont have to be a communist to think that simply "adapting ones own individual situation" to what is happening is not a long term solution to what is being faced. Getting one person a job does not solve widespread unemployment, lack of opportunity, and the "third worldization" race to the bottom the US is in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekkie
But they are wrong as well. Any system that infringes on a person's free will fails 100% of the time. Your system infringes on a person's free will. Therefore...well, you figure it out.
YOUR system infringes on a persons free will. Why is your infringement better? At least my "infringement" guarantees everyone a minimal standard of living.
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Originally Posted by Tekkie
I heard you out for several pages on this thread. I'm one of the more compassionate empathizers you'll probably find on this board. And even I think your plan is ludicrous. I'm all for creative ideas, but your idea is not creative at all. It's already been carried out in places like the former USSR, China, North Korea, etc. USSR collapsed. China is slowly but surely converting to a more capitalistic society. And North Korea is the armpit of the world.
Um, it hasnt been carried out in any of these countries. Every single one of these were some form of state run capitalism.
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Originally Posted by Tekkie
So yeah, tell me again why I'm myopic, and how your "original" game-changing plan is so brilliant. You have no idea how it will even work, because you can't take your mind from point A to point B to point C to envision what the future holds for a plan like yours. You have plenty of historical references to shed some light for you, so I suggest you go to the public library and do a little research.
My ideas arent "that" original, never said they were. I borrow a whole lot from Marx, especially the concept of labor value, but I do have disagreements with standard Marxism which I interject my own spins.
Either way, there is absolutely zero historical reference to any of it. I really dont feel like getting in to another 100 page battle on why that is, so, if you are interested in me tearing somebody just like you to shreds on the subject, go back to my posts in I believe April or May. The guy I oppose makes every standard argument on the planet, most of which Im sure you make, which I systematically dismantle
YOUR system infringes on a persons free will. Why is your infringement better? At least my "infringement" guarantees everyone a minimal standard of living.
First off, I don't have a system. I did not design capitalism. I've merely accepted it as the best system that we have to choose from. In your system, I can only have 1 acre of land, even if I want more land (free will). Within capitalism, I have the ability to buy however much land I desire. Yes, I don't start out with anything in most cases, but I have the ability to acquire more land as a function of my labor. In your system, I start out with 1 acre (of whose choosing, that is still dubious) but that is all I will ever have even if I want to acquire more (infringement on free will). Are you following this logic? You have the freedom to do pretty much anything you want within capitalism, but in your system I am extremely limited (1 acre of land, that is it).
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Originally Posted by Randomdude
Um, it hasnt been carried out in any of these countries. Every single one of these were some form of state run capitalism.
You are so d**n ignorant. This is completely false. China has only recently started incorporating more capitalistic policies to allow their country's economy to expand. The USSR and North Korea had/have the purest forms of communism you are ever going to see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude
Either way, there is absolutely zero historical reference to any of it. I really dont feel like getting in to another 100 page battle on why that is, so, if you are interested in me tearing somebody just like you to shreds on the subject, go back to my posts in I believe April or May. The guy I oppose makes every standard argument on the planet, most of which Im sure you make, which I systematically dismantle
First sentence is false...again. I like the rest of your statement though (I enjoy a good laugh). Coming from a guy who can't even successfully navigate the system he is in now (can't even break the $35k mark in a $$$ career field), and yet, we're supposed to throw our trust into his much more improved system? What can I say? At least with your limited ability to earn more money, you're preparing yourself for a system with a limited ability to earn more land.
Yeah, maybe I don't like working for "the man" either, but at least I've learned how to extract more money from his bank account. You're still running in place perplexed by why you can't get past first base eight years out of college. How sad. I'm ready for that systematic dismantling now.
Guess who ultimately wins this battle and guess who spends the rest of their life tormented by the idea of working for "the man" and never reaching their full potential EVER? Anyone?
First off, I don't have a system. I did not design capitalism. I've merely accepted it as the best system that we have to choose from. In your system, I can only have 1 acre of land, even if I want more land (free will).
Actually, I never said you couldnt have more than one acre of land. I actually have an entire side theory on ownership of non capital assets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekkie
Within capitalism, I have the ability to buy however much land I desire. Yes, I don't start out with anything in most cases, but I have the ability to acquire more land as a function of my labor. In your system, I start out with 1 acre (of whose choosing, that is still dubious) but that is all I will ever have even if I want to acquire more (infringement on free will).
You are the one that imposed the restriction to 1 acre. All I ever said is that there is ENOUGH arable land for everyone to have one acre.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekkie
Are you following this logic? You have the freedom to do pretty much anything you want within capitalism, but in your system I am extremely limited (1 acre of land, that is it).
You dont have the freedom to do ANYTHING you want. If you are the average Joe, you are born in debt, and your whole entire life is determined by someone else. I dont care what you "think" you accomplished on your own. Your employer has your nuts in his hand, period. If its not them, its some bank, or a customer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekkie
You are so d**n ignorant. This is completely false. China has only recently started incorporating more capitalistic policies to allow their country's economy to expand. The USSR and North Korea had/have the purest forms of communism you are ever going to see.
Lol. You have no clue what communism is, or what exists in USSR or North Korea. In fact, the USSR "form of communism" was so far off communism that they renamed it Leninism and later Stalinism. The system Mao forced top down on his people was called Maoism.
These were STATE RUN CAPITALISMS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekkie
First sentence is false...again. I like the rest of your statement though (I enjoy a good laugh). Coming from a guy who can't even successfully navigate the system he is in now (can't even break the $35k mark in a $$$ career field), and yet, we're supposed to throw our trust into his much more improved system?
1. Accounting is not a "$$$" field. Anyone without a CPA is largely paid dirt.
2. Not sure where you dug up that I "cant even break the 35k mark".
3. The wage capitalism has determined to assign to me has absolutely no determination of my ability, knowledge or intellegence.
4. This isnt about me
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekkie
Yeah, maybe I don't like working for "the man" either, but at least I've learned how to extract more money from his bank account. You're still running in place perplexed by why you can't get past first base eight years out of college. How sad.
This isnt about me. This is about you thinking that the solution to a macro problem is micro in nature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekkie
Guess who ultimately wins this battle and guess who spends the rest of their life tormented by the idea of working for "the man" and never reaching their full potential EVER? Anyone?
Give it 20 years......I can promise youll lose the war.
Actually, I never said you couldnt have more than one acre of land. I actually have an entire side theory on ownership of non capital assets.
You are the one that imposed the restriction to 1 acre. All I ever said is that there is ENOUGH arable land for everyone to have one acre.
Oh great, side theories. So do I even own this land? Because it sounds like you're against private ownership of land. Who determines what people get? Is there a benevolent social planner with all our best intentions at heart?
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Originally Posted by Randomdude
You dont have the freedom to do ANYTHING you want. If you are the average Joe, you are born in debt, and your whole entire life is determined by someone else. I dont care what you "think" you accomplished on your own. Your employer has your nuts in his hand, period. If its not them, its some bank, or a customer.
How are you born in debt? I was born debt free. Are you claiming that because you start out with $0 capital, that you are essentially born in debt because you have to earn a living? That is absolutely silly. Being born with $0 is nothing like owing money to somebody.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude
Lol. You have no clue what communism is, or what exists in USSR or North Korea. In fact, the USSR "form of communism" was so far off communism that they renamed it Leninism and later Stalinism. The system Mao forced top down on his people was called Maoism.
These were STATE RUN CAPITALISMS.
To-ma-toh, to-mah-toh. Communism is communism, even all of its little variations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude
2. Not sure where you dug up that I "cant even break the 35k mark".
POST # 166 2. I dont know where this garbage about accountants making decent money got started, but Id love to get the base details on that. Over the 8 years Ive been out of college, Ive averaged slightly better than 30k a year. A few years I could barely afford food, forget about an acre of land.
So are you going to start lying to us now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude
Give it 20 years......I can promise youll lose the war.
Oh great, side theories. So do I even own this land? Because it sounds like you're against private ownership of land.
No, Im not really against private ownership of residential land (during ones lifetime). Nor do I have a problem with two people who are on equal negotiating platforms exchanging goods or assets. If someone starts with the same thing as you, and is stupid enough to surrender what they have to you, thats their fault.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekkie
How are you born in debt? I was born debt free. Are you claiming that because you start out with $0 capital, that you are essentially born in debt because you have to earn a living? That is absolutely silly. Being born with $0 is nothing like owing money to somebody.
I see, so, at birth, you did not require food, which had to be obtained from someone who owned food producing assets? You did not require shelter, which required building materials and land, owned by someone else?
At birth, the man already owned you, unless you made the "choice" to die.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekkie
To-ma-toh, to-mah-toh. Communism is communism, even all of its little variations.
No, it isnt. If I called a bird a car, it doesnt make a bird a car.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekkie
POST # 166 2. I dont know where this garbage about accountants making decent money got started, but Id love to get the base details on that. Over the 8 years Ive been out of college, Ive averaged slightly better than 30k a year. A few years I could barely afford food, forget about an acre of land.
Apparently math isnt a strength? If it was, you would realize that "average" is often disproportionately influenced by extremes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekkie
We'll see. First, you'll have to catch up to me.
Wont have to. When enough people are starving with no other option, you wont have anywhere to run.
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What can I say? At least with your limited ability to earn more money, you're preparing yourself for a system with a limited ability to earn more land.
I'm ready for that systematic dismantling now. 
