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Unionize McDonalds and what will you get??? Unionized $8/hr jobs. Many grocery store workers belong to a union. They still make near minimum wage. UPS is union. Starting wage there is $9/hr to sit in a hot room sorting packages. Union does not equal higher wages because unions operate through collective bargaining. Unfortunately, unskilled workers simply don't have much bargaining power in this day and age. Advances in technology have also done a great deal to reduce the need for unskilled or low skilled workers. Aside from this, unions don't make companies money. Customers do. Customers ultimately decide what kind of wage a company can support.
Again, I suggest the global playing field is being leveled. Highly skilled workers still fair much better. That's the high ground that workers should be striving for in this day and age.
Personally, I've made plenty more working non union that union.
You're right... Quality jobs just don't happen. They do happen when workers have the proper skills to do the jobs in demand. A big part of that problem here is companies refuse to invest in training anymore. Manufacturing is still producing good, high paying jobs, along with a lot of terribly underpaying jobs. You don't see many young people pursuing careers in manufacturing anymore. So what will happen? Naturally, the work will go to those who can do the work. Here, there, where ever. At this rate, it will be more over there as less here. Companies like dealing with suppliers and manufacturers close to home, but that will become more and more challenging as the workforce resources are allocated for low paying occupations, as well as professional roles, which simply can't absorb every college graduate longing for a desk and an office. There must be a point of equilibrium to allow for growth of high paying jobs.
If unions do one thing considerably better than corporations, it's encouraging investment in the next generation of skilled workers. Companies generally don't make a dime on a young worker learning the ropes, but still, someone better train them to do something. Without them, we are going to see many occupations continue to decline in this country, more companies whining about labor shortages, and more good paying jobs going somewhere else. America the inefficient...
First, I never suggested the unionization of mcdonalds. Secondly, Unions do offer lower skill workers higher pay. Here are some examples The proposed labor contract covering 30,000 members of the New York Hotel and Motel Trades Council, A.F.L.-C.I.O., is so beneficial to workers that it seems born from a different era.
Wages would rise by more than 29 percent over the next seven years. A housekeeper, now making a little more than $25 an hour, would have her annual pay rise to $59,823 in mid-2018. She would continue to receive full medical, dental and eye-care benefits, and her employer’s contribution to her pension would rise each year.
UAW Local 2121 at Foxwoods Resort Casino and MGM Grand
A big issue was division of tokes (tips), which represent two-thirds of income. The contract stipulates that all tokes will be pooled and divided equally including workers at the new high-end MGM Grand and the larger Foxwoods casino. The average base-rate of pay, $5.90 an hour will increase by 12 percent over two years and the toke-rate, which averages $14.14 an hour, will increase by $1.32.
The UAW considers the health and safety language in the contract "an industry model.". Medical leave for serious illness is extended from six months to a year. A 24-table "smoke-free pit" separated from other gaming areas will be established for dealers with conditions aggravated by secondhand smoke. Air-testing and ventilation systems will be established.
Boston School Bus Drivers’ Union, United Steelworkers Local 8751
On Dec. 15, the local ratified a historic contract that for the first time provides the resources for its members to “Retire with Dignity.” It includes 40 new hires; 3,500 additional paid hours weekly; wage increases; and improved life insurance, medical, dental and long-term disability benefits. All concessions were defeated.
I am not saying I have the answers in how to increase pay of the jobs that the American economy produces. What I am saying is that needs to be a firm commitment to increase the incomes of many of the jobs, and if that means increasing skills then so be it.
I agree that companies now put the expense on society and individuals to train the American workforce.
Unfortunately, with mandatory health insurance on the horizon we may see more businesses resort to temp workers.
Actually, the current mandatory health insurance plan that's on the horizon shifts the burden of health insurance from businesses to the individual, as in the individual must have their own health insurance OR pay a fine to the government. (See Massachusetts' mandatory health insurance; it's like that.) Businesses are actually going to have a choice to cover employee health insurance or pay a fee/fine per employee (which in many cases is LESS than the cost of an employee's health insurance) to the government. So in the future it will be cheaper in many cases for a business not to provide any health insurance and the individual is at the mercy of insurance companies, thanks to our POTUS's plan.
Actually, the current mandatory health insurance plan that's on the horizon shifts the burden of health insurance from businesses to the individual, as in the individual must have their own health insurance OR pay a fine to the government. (See Massachusetts' mandatory health insurance; it's like that.) Businesses are actually going to have a choice to cover employee health insurance or pay a fee/fine per employee (which in many cases is LESS than the cost of an employee's health insurance) to the government. So in the future it will be cheaper in many cases for a business not to provide any health insurance and the individual is at the mercy of insurance companies, thanks to our POTUS's plan.
We need to stop thinking those jobs are acceptable long-term options for those not either in the very early years of working, or supplementing retirement, working p/t.
This is no excuse not to provide livable wages. What happens when every company simply says "you shouldn't think of our job as being an acceptable long term option?" Kind of a slippery slop. Frankly, the ganitor/groundskeeper where I work makes more than these temps, and he also get's the same health insurance and benefits as the rest of us. I don't have a problem with that at all. If someone is willing to work full time and carry their weight, I do believe that is better than the alternative... A nation of leeches. That's exactly what we encourage when wage structures continue to deteriorate. Not everybody is capable of handling some of today's demanding professions. That doesn't mean they should starve.
And what is a job? Work that needs to be done. I'd rather pay a little more and have it show in the quality of the work, than to pay market/below market rates and have a worker who doesn't give a crap. That will also show in the quality of the work. There is no money in being average. There are always customers who demand higher quality, and they are willing to pay more for that quality. Where this country went wrong was trying to directly compete with China. Ain't gonna win that battle, sorry.
This is no excuse not to provide livable wages. What happens when every company simply says "you shouldn't think of our job as being an acceptable long term option?" Kind of a slippery slop. Frankly, the ganitor/groundskeeper where I work makes more than these temps, and he also get's the same health insurance and benefits as the rest of us. I don't have a problem with that at all. If someone is willing to work full time and carry their weight, I do believe that is better than the alternative... A nation of leeches. That's exactly what we encourage when wage structures continue to deteriorate. Not everybody is capable of handling some of today's demanding professions. That doesn't mean they should starve.
And what is a job? Work that needs to be done. I'd rather pay a little more and have it show in the quality of the work, than to pay market/below market rates and have a worker who doesn't give a crap. That will also show in the quality of the work. There is no money in being average. There are always customers who demand higher quality, and they are willing to pay more for that quality. Where this country went wrong was trying to directly compete with China. Ain't gonna win that battle, sorry.
Precisely:
1) An advanced nation cannot continue to function without living wages being paid to its workers. Similarly, a society dependent upon consumer spending cannot function without living wages, either.
2) Corporations who produce complex products will suffer vast losses in quality and productivity if they resort to poorly paid perma-temps. That should be obvious - if you flat out tell your workers, "We don't care about you - accept our crummy wages and lack of job security and deal with it!" what will the result be? One would have to be nuts to expect those workers to then "give it their all" and produce a quality product or service.
3) As you said, winning the race to the bottom is basically another word for losing.
Plus they are going to go through employees fast. In and out in and out. Never working anywhere near as efficiently as possible when people keep quitting and you have to hire someone new.
Plus they are going to go through employees fast. In and out in and out. Never working anywhere near as efficiently as possible when people keep quitting and you have to hire someone new.
This should force employers the raise the wages in order to reduce turnover. It's a good thing. Employees will stay longer when paid well.
1) An advanced nation cannot continue to function without living wages being paid to its workers. Similarly, a society dependent upon consumer spending cannot function without living wages, either.
Yes it can. It just won't be the "America" most of us have grown to know, and the "America" immigrants have been flocking to for decades. The Europeans stopped trying to enter the country illegally a decade + ago. Wonder why??? New America. Prosperity for the masses ain't part of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler123
2) Corporations who produce complex products will suffer vast losses in quality and productivity if they resort to poorly paid perma-temps. That should be obvious - if you flat out tell your workers, "We don't care about you - accept our crummy wages and lack of job security and deal with it!" what will the result be? One would have to be nuts to expect those workers to then "give it their all" and produce a quality product or service.
There is indeed a market for "cheap". American's have continued to flock to the "cheap" alternative in greater numbers, perhaps a strong reflection of stagnant or declining wages. Never the less, there is a market for low prices, at the expense of quality goods/services. The problem is, the market is extremely competitive, profit margins are razor thin, and stability is non existent. Much better to cater to the customer with some extra spending money. Yes, it's not easy to offer "quality", and it requires the dedication of everyone involved, but if ya like premium cigars and choice cut stakes, that'd be the business to be in. Everyone whines about how the rich have all the money. Simple answer... Get them to throw some in your direction! American business model FAIL...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler123
3) As you said, winning the race to the bottom is basically another word for losing.
It's a loss for all parties involved. I feel sorry for the next generations that will have to clean up this mess. They will be brought up in an environment where quality is not worth anything, so what's the point in trying? Forget that! Going the extra mile??? What's the reward? HA! There is no point in striving for perfection anymore, because that has been marginalized out of the budget. It saved 3%, so it just had to go.
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