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I also doubt the company "took him out of the running" solely because of a double submission. If he was what they wanted, they would have hired him and probably paid the commission to your agency. Maybe they took him out of the running because they didn't want to fight over a commission and the contract with your agency and he wasn't all that, so it was no biggie to them anyway.
Many companies do not want "desperate" job seekers. They want to feel they have someone in high demand. They prefer people who are currently employed and have been employed in the same place for a long time. Receiving multiple submissions makes you appear to be desperate, and somewhat disloyal. But mostly, it appears that you are desperate and firing off applications as fast as your fingers can type. That is not desirable. In this economy, employers have their pick of the litter so don't give them a reason to discount you.
I thought I knew everything about HR and recruiting until I actually sat on the other side. The OP was giving good advice, it is wise to take into consideration advice from those who have been there, done that.
You need to disclose the jobs you've already applied for either on your own or through other recruiters. Once again, it does not help you to be submitted twice.
If he told the company, the company would have told you he already contacted us, you didn't find him for us, don't bother, you won't get a commission.
If he told you, you wouldn't have bothered submitting his resume because you would know you are not entitled to a commission since you didn't make the initial introduction.
Why would a recruiter think they were entitled to a commission for job the customer found on his own? That would be like me finding my dream home on my own and my real esatate agent thinking they're getting a commission. NOT. I did the work so no commission.
Many companies do not want "desperate" job seekers. They want to feel they have someone in high demand. They prefer people who are currently employed and have been employed in the same place for a long time. Receiving multiple submissions makes you appear to be desperate, and somewhat disloyal. But mostly, it appears that you are desperate and firing off applications as fast as your fingers can type. That is not desirable. In this economy, employers have their pick of the litter so don't give them a reason to discount you.
I thought I knew everything about HR and recruiting until I actually sat on the other side. The OP was giving good advice, it is wise to take into consideration advice from those who have been there, done that.
You need to disclose the jobs you've already applied for either on your own or through other recruiters. Once again, it does not help you to be submitted twice.
What I don't get is why the recruiter didn't tell the customer they were submitting him. Sounds like the recruiter dropped the ball here. If they'd told him they were submitting him for this job, he might have told them he already applied for it on his own. If I had a recruiter do this to me and it cost me being considered for a job, I'd think about suing. They have no right to submit you for any job before asking you if you want to be submitted.
I'm applying for a job this week that I didn't get through a lead from a recruiter (came through my network of friends). The recruiters I'm working with had better have more sense than this or they'll be meeting my lawyer. It's not the applicant who needed to disclose here. It's the recruiter. He should not have been submitting this guy for any job without permission.
Why would a recruiter think they were entitled to a commission for job the customer found on his own? That would be like me finding my dream home on my own and my real esatate agent thinking they're getting a commission. NOT. I did the work so no commission.
I don't know why they would expect a commission in that case. I agree with you.
But this is what the OP said:
Quote:
The issue was that he decided to do so without telling at least one of us. If he told the company, they would have been expecting us to also submit him. If he had told us, we could have submitted him with the note that we know he had already contacted them.
Judging from the above, the OP must have been expecting a commission anyway (so long as the job applicant "told" them about already applying with the client company).
I don't know why they would expect a commission in that case. I agree with you.
But this is what the OP said:
Judging from the above, the OP must have been expecting a commission anyway (so long as the job applicant "told" them about already applying with the client company).
I don't know why the recruiter was submitting him to a company he had already applied to in the first place. Isn't it customary to ask the customer if they want to be submitted for the job? If he had already applied, the recruiter is out of the equation. There is no reason for the recruiter to submit his application again. I'm wondering why the recruiter didn't ask.
I don't know why the recruiter was submitting him to a company he had already applied to in the first place. Isn't it customary to as the customer if they want to be submitted for the job?
Oh definitely. I have dealt with recruiters before and that's what they will do. If they have a client company they want to refer me to they will tell me who it is and ask me if I've already applied there recently. If I say I've applied there recently or am not interested in working at that company, they will not submit my resume.
The OP's posts weren't 100% clear to me on what happened.
Did the job applicant find out about the opening/client company from her agency and then go and apply by himself? (I would not do that. If I heard about the opening from the agency I would let the agency submit me to their client.) Or did the job applicant just happen to apply for that opening on his own and DELIBERATELY not communicate that to her agency? (This seems kind of weird also. If an agency tells me about an opening they would like to submit me for and I have already recently applied at their client, that would be the first thing out of my mouth. Why conceal that from the agency and let them submit you as a brand new applicant when you've already applied?)
What I don't get is why the recruiter didn't tell the customer they were submitting him. Sounds like the recruiter dropped the ball here. If they'd told him they were submitting him for this job, he might have told them he already applied for it on his own. If I had a recruiter do this to me and it cost me being considered for a job, I'd think about suing. They have no right to submit you for any job before asking you if you want to be submitted.
I'm applying for a job this week that I didn't get through a lead from a recruiter (came through my network of friends). The recruiters I'm working with had better have more sense than this or they'll be meeting my lawyer. It's not the applicant who needed to disclose here. It's the recruiter. He should not have been submitting this guy for any job without permission.
Many clients do not want their names disclosed unless they have agreed to interview the person. In some cases, choosing to disclose this is a breach of contract.
Therefore, the question is not "Have you applied at so and so?" The question is, "where have you applied?" I do not know how others work, but I do not just submit candidates to wherever and hope it sticks. If I am submitting you to something, you have read the job description (which is why you are still talking to me), we have discussed it a bit, and I have prequalified you to see if you would be a match because every client is looking for certain things and my job is far more than just passing along your resume- I need to make a good case for why they should consider you.
Furthermore I have straight up asked you, "where have you applied already?" because if you get submitted twice, it makes you look desperate, and it also makes it look like I am not thorough for not asking. If you choose to go around me, or not disclose that you have already applied- I am not sure what you would sue for.
Many clients do not want their names disclosed unless they have agreed to interview the person. In some cases, choosing to disclose this is a breach of contract.
Therefore, the question is not "Have you applied at so and so?" The question is, "where have you applied?" I do not know how others work, but I do not just submit candidates to wherever and hope it sticks. If I am submitting you to something, you have read the job description (which is why you are still talking to me), we have discussed it a bit, and I have prequalified you to see if you would be a match because every client is looking for certain things and my job is far more than just passing along your resume- I need to make a good case for why they should consider you.
Furthermore I have straight up asked you, "where have you applied already?" because if you get submitted twice, it makes you look desperate, and it also makes it look like I am not thorough for not asking. If you choose to go around me, or not disclose that you have already applied- I am not sure what you would sue for.
How can they agree to interview someone if you will not tell the applicant who you are submitting them to in the first place to get the ball rolling? I would not agree to be submitted to some anonymous entity. I have never in my life had an employment agency salesperson propose such a thing when I was applying, but if one did, I would pass.
How can they agree to interview someone if you will not tell the applicant who you are submitting them to in the first place to get the ball rolling? I would not agree to be submitted to some anonymous entity. I have never in my life had an employment agency salesperson propose such a thing when I was applying, but if one did, I would pass.
The agency I was with didn't list the company on their website but once i came in they told me the name of the company.
How can they agree to interview someone if you will not tell the applicant who you are submitting them to in the first place to get the ball rolling? I would not agree to be submitted to some anonymous entity. I have never in my life had an employment agency salesperson propose such a thing when I was applying, but if one did, I would pass.
What does one have to do with the other?
And there is a difference between an employment agency and a third party recruiter.
If my agreement says that the client doesn't want to be disclosed, then I need to follow that. I have never had anyone complain, though people may ask the name of the company, most say "oh, ok" when I tell them the clients wishes.
A good recruiter is not your enemy. A bad one isn't your enemy either, but their motives and "beside manner" may be a little questionable.
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Why would a recruiter think they were entitled to a commission for job the customer found on his own? That would be like me finding my dream home on my own and my real esatate agent thinking they're getting a commission. NOT. I did the work so no commission.
