Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I have about 5 years total experience doing CAD, but 2 years in Proe. Proe pays the most and I get contract rates ranging from $24 to $35 / hr as a Proe Designer / Detailer. But the problem is Proe is expensive and is used in Bigger companies. So for most Proe contract jobs you have to jump around the nation doing temp work [not many Chicago companies use Proe as much as Solidworks]. I got tired of this and in August 2009 I told my recruiter, Chris Gallucio, that I wanted to stay in a Chicago job. Big mistake as this greedy recruiter was willing to throw and submit me to any good Proe job around the nation. But I was also tied down at that time to having 3 vehicles; now I have 2 and can stick one in the garage while I do a nationwide temp job. When I tried to get back to Gallucio in Fall 2011 he ignored my emails.
Manufacturing has evolved quite a bit in the past 5 years. Having the best CAD tool is irrelevant. Having the workers that know how to improve efficiency is everything now. Practical application is the order of the day. Employers want someone who can get a blue print in the morning, and have machines spitting out CORRECT parts by lunch time, and ready to go to the furnace/platting/whatever by the next morning. JIT manufacturing demands a different kind of worker than a typical CAD jockey. They want results, not credentials.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse69
Andywire - what type of engineer is your brother? Who is better off, you or your brother? Is he tied down by student loans too?
Electrical engineering, but he only has an associates degree. Got hired when things were good and got trained starting in CAD drafting/design. He does the design, installation and programming of the equipment these days.
I don't know whose better off. He paid for his education working part time so no debt. Community college is cheaper. Most of what he learned was on the job anyways. We both have traded spots time and again regarding who makes more. OT usually placed me higher at the end of the year, while his wage was generally higher. My experience is more broad so I can find a job easier, while his experience is rather narrow and tied to auto industry production. He has never been laid off while I have been laid off twice in the past 5 years. Employers tend to view skilled trades as the workhorses, and the most disposable during downturns, but I hear engineers complaining about the layoff situations a lot more, while companies are scrambling to actually find skill trade workers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse69
If I see a $14 CAD job I assume it's a CHEAP company that uses AutoCAD and that it's not worth working for. Autocad is stone age stuff to do 3d design work, yet in Dec 2008 I interviewed with National Oilwell Varco and they designed a big complex electromechanical control station in AutoCAD 3d - I took one look at it and realized they must have wasted a lot of time. They were in the process of moving to Solidworks. They were too cheap to hire me as they didn't have the budget. So after this last interview in Houston going to Jan 2))( I moved back to Chicago because 2009 was the year the job market collapsed with many layoffs happening everywhere in every industry.
Some companies just require 2D images for the work they do. I still see a fair bit of them. We use autoCAD at work for the EDM work. Not every task requires calling the arsenal... It's an issue of practicality. Many of the companies we deal with like the convenience, and I know many of them are paying above market rates. You can't judge a company solely on the particular CAD tool they prefer. Solidworks is not rocket science either, and I've seen some rather dull talent that is proficient with it. You're missing the point entirely regarding CAD work... That's not where the money is at. The money is practical application in the manufacturing process. Anyone can draw shapes. Knowing the when, where and hows is what makes companies money and brings home the bacon. You need experience beyond staring at a computer.
Hmmm, according to the BLS' revised numbers for July, the US LOST 15,000 manufacturing jobs.
But we can't focus on all of that doom and gloom here, now can we?
In case you have not noticed, manufacturing is very cyclical. It always gains and looses jobs. Nothing ever stays the same. It just so happens that for 3 years, it has consistently gained more jobs than lost. One month is completely irrelevant, and a drop in the bucket. More than likely, temp workers not being called back are what accounts for most of the job losses. Companies view them as the first line of defense against contraction in the sector, as they are easily disposable and hassle free to replace.
You will also notice manufacturing in China and Europe has been hit considerably harder this past month, which may indicate the manufacturing sector in the U.S. is proving resilient.
Since 2001, 2.4 Million Manufacturing Jobs have been lost JUST TO CHINA.
In 2001, 16 Million Americans were working in Manufacturing. In 2012, after reaching a low of 11.5 Million workers, it has only recovered slowly to 12 Million Workers.
Since 2001, 15 Manufacturing Facilities shut their doors everyday in the US.
Since 2001, 56,000 Manufacturing facilities have shut their doors.
If you seriously believe all of the above that was lost is coming back, then darn it I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn for $7.5 TRillion Dollars.
Last edited by 313Weather; 09-07-2012 at 07:57 PM..
Since 2001, 2.4 Million Manufacturing Jobs have been lost JUST TO CHINA.
In 2001, 16 Million Americans were working in Manufacturing. In 2012, after reaching a low of 11.5 Million workers, it has only recovered slowly to 12 Million Workers.
Since 2001, 15 Manufacturing Facilities have shut their doors everyday in the US.
Since 2001, 56,000 Manufacturing facilities have shut their doors.
If you seriously believe all of the above that was lost is coming back, then darn it I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn for $7.5 TRillion Dollars.
It will not all come back. And if 10 jobs come back, it will not translate to 10 jobs being created in this country. In theory, the "work" will come back, not the jobs. The work that is done in this country is done here because we are more efficient, can deliver products faster, offer far superior quality and require fewer workers to achieve the same level of productivity. A computer is more efficient than a human hand. It still requires a few human brains around, but it's far more efficient than human beings physically guiding a tool, which is pretty much what they do in China. While China was expanding, they were buying all of our used 1960's technology, while we were buying all of Japans modern computer controlled equipment. There's the difference.
What you are seeing is all the labor intensive work that has evaporated or left the country. So, companies utilize less labor intensive methods to accomplish the same task. Fewer jobs is simply not an indication of declining health of the manufacturing sector.
And guess what... China is loosing manufacturing jobs hand over fist these days... When their finance minister says the employment situation is going to get very complex, what he is really saying is, some of you's are gonna be going back to the rice paddies...
Fewer jobs is simply not an indication of declining health of the manufacturing sector.
We're discussing the supply of Manufacturing JOBS in AMERICA, not the health of the Manufacturing industry overall.
Bottom line, despite what the OP says, Manufacturing in the long term are not coming back (even your job, someone in China or Colombia I'm sure is ready to take it right now for $.10 cents on the dollar). But it makes for great feel-good propaganda.
We're discussing the supply of Manufacturing JOBS in AMERICA, not the health of the Manufacturing industry overall.
Bottom line, despite what the OP says, Manufacturing in the long term are not coming back (even your job, someone in China or Colombia I'm sure is ready to take it right now for $.10 cents on the dollar). But it makes for great feel-good propaganda.
What you also neglect to realize is there is a shortage of skilled labor in this country, largely due to the years of contraction. Perfect opportunity to absorb some unemployed folks into the sector. I'll take any growth over no growth or decline. At any rate, more jobs ARE coming back, than leaving these days. They sent everything not bolted down already, and many companies admit they sent TOO much work overseas. It stretches supply chains too far and creates too many headaches, not to mention the laughable botched work.
As for my job... It's nice to see companies that have "China piles" to display to their management why they don't deal with China. If you want a million roofing nails made, go to India. If you want a coronary stent manufactured that has to be made to the highest level of precision and integrity... Might want to up your standards, and budget. We are still the number one manufacturing nation on the planet for a reason... Manufacturing is more than Christmas tree ornaments and blenders...
And thankfully, they can't afford the equipment I work on in those countries. Frankly, if doctors in India can read EKGs done in this country, my job is about as safe as anyone elses. Foreign competition is not just a threat to manufacturing workers...
What you also neglect to realize is there is a shortage of skilled labor in this country, largely due to the years of contraction. Perfect opportunity to absorb some unemployed folks into the sector. I'll take any growth over no growth or decline.
If the unemployed workers are unskilled as you and employers claimed, why would they be absorbed?
That makes absolutely no sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire
We are still the number one manufacturing nation on the planet for a reason... .
If the unemployed workers are unskilled as you and employers claimed, why would they be absorbed?
That makes absolutely no sense.
There is always unskilled work that needs done. As output grows, that will absorb unskilled workers, of which some are selected and trained to do better paying jobs in the future. I imagine it wouldn't make sense to someone who really doesn't understand anything about this particular sector... But I'm always happy to provide incite.
Perhaps you should read this for a better look at what is happening. You are still ignoring the issue of... Quantity vs quality... There is no money in marti gras beads, which is why U.S. manufacturing isn't centered around those items. The U.S. has been shifting towards technologically driven, high value, healthy margin work that slave wage nations cannot do.
After reading this article, you will also see why it is much more favorable to work in the manufacturing sector in this country, as opposed to China... What is happening is the same thing that happened when America became a manufacturing super power. We had cheaper wages, we took lots of work from higher wage Britain, yet their manufacturing sector remains intact today. Same ol story. History repeats...
There is always unskilled work that needs done. As output grows, that will absorb unskilled workers, of which some are selected and trained to do better paying jobs in the future.
The reason it don't make sense is because...
1. The work could easily be automated.
2. Employers can easily train people in third world countries for $.10 cents on the dollar to do the work versus Americans as long as trade continues to remain unregulated.
Again, you're being overtly optimistic about America's situation.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
