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And I've met plenty of non-union electricians (and plumbers and carpenters and machinists) that couldn't find their a** with both hands, so there. You seem to be obsessive in your dislike of unions-kind of like someone who's been dumped by his girlfriend, so he bad mouths her to anyone who'll listen.
Just thankful I don't need a collective body to dictate my earning potential. Also thankful I don't have to pay into yet another form of senseless bureaucracy. I'm capable of telling a potential employer what I believe I am worth. If he doesn't agree, I'm a big boy and will move on. Never said unions were entirely bad, or union workers were any less capable of doing the job. Frankly, I don't think it makes one lick of difference. Unions have the benefit of good training programs, but some people simply aren't teachable, and will never be competent. Others are lazy and aren't capable of making anyone any $$$. No union or non union shop has a strategy for that dilemma. Problem I see is the dead weight in a union shops pulls everyone down, while the non union shop will quickly show them to the door.
It's also silly to suggest a skilled tradesman will never make a good living unless they belong to a union. That's where my original point of contention originated.
Just thankful Problem I see is the dead weight in a union shops pulls everyone down, while the non union shop will quickly show them to the door.
It's also silly to suggest a skilled tradesman will never make a good living unless they belong to a union. That's where my original point of contention originated.
One of these days you'll get older and slower and maybe considered dead weight by the new younger guys gunning for your job. Hopefully, you'll be in management by then and not shown the door.
One of these days you'll get older and slower and maybe considered dead weight by the new younger guys gunning for your job. Hopefully, you'll be in management by then and not shown the door.
Maybe. They might be able to move faster, and they may be more limber, but the older guys are paid more for what they know. They are also paid for the experience. Young folks make for great cheap labor starting out. At least with regards to the work I do, it's brains over brawns. I'm more worried about technology encroaching on my work and making me obsolete. At 25 YO, I won't be a threat to any of the older guys for another decade or so. OTOH, an 18 YO isn't any threat to me, and by the time they learn to do what I can do today, I will have another 10 years of knowledge and experience on my side.
I'm all in favor of folks being paid what they are worth, regardless of age, sex, religion, ethnicity, and so on.
I love skilled tradesmen. Currently I'm a white collar technical worker/professional (computer specialist), but a lot of my family work in those trades. I believe that many times trade school/apprenticeship is much better than a college degree. While I do agree that unions are getting greedy, the pay is ****ing excellent and benefits are too generous! It's great! My parents worked at Ford back in the 70's when they were booming. Adjusted for inflation, my father, who worked in skilled trades as an electrician, made about $80K if I remember, and my mother did unskilled labor making about $50-$55K. I actually got my B.A. in college but started off in a job paying $12/hr. Yeah, that's a pretty low salary for a graduate. Meanwhile, these skilled trades guys finished their programs and got out of school making $45K and about $22/hr. Eventually some of my friends I knew were tradesmen were making $35/hr, and some made about $85K. Jesus Christ.
Oh, and skilled tradespeople will almost ALWAYS have work. Tell me somewhere that won't need mechanics, electricians, plumbers, pipefitters, carpenters, etc. And since teachers have been telling kids that labor is BAD and for stupid people, they are quite scarce in many place so there is an overabundance of great work. Oh, and the pay is usually good for skilled trades. Yes, unemployment among construction workers is very high, but the pay for a non-union construction worker around my area is about $42K. Not too shabby, that's about what teachers and firefighters make. Last time I checked, two construction workers raising a kid or two would have a combined income of around $85K. That sounds solidly middle class.
I love skilled tradesmen. Currently I'm a white collar technical worker/professional (computer specialist), but a lot of my family work in those trades. I believe that many times trade school/apprenticeship is much better than a college degree. While I do agree that unions are getting greedy, the pay is ****ing excellent and benefits are too generous! It's great! My parents worked at Ford back in the 70's when they were booming. Adjusted for inflation, my father, who worked in skilled trades as an electrician, made about $80K if I remember, and my mother did unskilled labor making about $50-$55K. I actually got my B.A. in college but started off in a job paying $12/hr. Yeah, that's a pretty low salary for a graduate. Meanwhile, these skilled trades guys finished their programs and got out of school making $45K and about $22/hr. Eventually some of my friends I knew were tradesmen were making $35/hr, and some made about $85K. Jesus Christ.
Oh, and skilled tradespeople will almost ALWAYS have work. Tell me somewhere that won't need mechanics, electricians, plumbers, pipefitters, carpenters, etc. And since teachers have been telling kids that labor is BAD and for stupid people, they are quite scarce in many place so there is an overabundance of great work. Oh, and the pay is usually good for skilled trades. Yes, unemployment among construction workers is very high, but the pay for a non-union construction worker around my area is about $42K. Not too shabby, that's about what teachers and firefighters make. Last time I checked, two construction workers raising a kid or two would have a combined income of around $85K. That sounds solidly middle class.
Skilled tradespeople will almost ALWAYS have work. Tell me somewhere that won't need mechanics, electricians, plumbers, pipefitters, carpenters, etc.
This has to be a joke. You obviously don't know what you are talking about. If new buildings are not being built, then you don't need skilled tradesmen construction workers. DUH! I'm in the electricians union in Chicago. Right now we have about 20% unemployment for the trades. There are THOUSANDS of electricians out of work. If you get laid off, its a 2-3 year wait to get back to work. It is rare to work year round. Some people don't have a clue, but for some reason pretend they do.
Just thankful I don't need a collective body to dictate my earning potential. Also thankful I don't have to pay into yet another form of senseless bureaucracy. I'm capable of telling a potential employer what I believe I am worth. If he doesn't agree, I'm a big boy and will move on. Never said unions were entirely bad, or union workers were any less capable of doing the job. Frankly, I don't think it makes one lick of difference. Unions have the benefit of good training programs, but some people simply aren't teachable, and will never be competent. Others are lazy and aren't capable of making anyone any $$$. No union or non union shop has a strategy for that dilemma. Problem I see is the dead weight in a union shops pulls everyone down, while the non union shop will quickly show them to the door.
It's also silly to suggest a skilled tradesman will never make a good living unless they belong to a union. That's where my original point of contention originated.
Have you even worked union construction? Layoffs are commonplace and the lazy workers are constantly getting laid off. I've been laid off plenty of times. There is no one saying they can't layoff workers or have to keep workers. And the union only "dictates" the minimum they have to pay someone. When things were good, many construction workers were paid more than what the negotiated union pay was. Please don't speak about something you have no clue about.
Have you even worked union construction? Layoffs are commonplace and the lazy workers are constantly getting laid off. I've been laid off plenty of times. There is no one saying they can't layoff workers or have to keep workers. And the union only "dictates" the minimum they have to pay someone. When things were good, many construction workers were paid more than what the negotiated union pay was. Please don't speak about something you have no clue about.
What does any of this have to do with the original comment? My original comment had nothing to do with this union bashing babble talk. For what it's worth, I belonged to a trade union for two years. Now I have no use for a union.
What does any of this have to do with the original comment? My original comment had nothing to do with this union bashing babble talk. For what it's worth, I belonged to a trade union for two years. Now I have no use for a union.
How quickly people forget their own words. Your quotes from directly above:
"Just thankful I don't need a collective body to dictate my earning potential. I'm capable of telling a potential employer what I believe I am worth. "
"Others are lazy and aren't capable of making anyone any $$$. No union or non union shop has a strategy for that dilemma. Problem I see is the dead weight in a union shops pulls everyone down, while the non union shop will quickly show them to the door."
I was an electrician and loved my job ! When you wire a house (Or business in my case) you feel like you've accomplished something. Plus the fact that no matter how many degrees those pencil pushers have, most of them don't know how to plug in a light. I always enjoyed taking their money !
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