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My business? I get to say whether my employees get vaccinated or not. They get to say whether they want to work for me or find another job.
Thank you.
In this thread people are complaining 'freedom(s)' are being taken away and 'they can't make me do this or that'. We have a comprehension problem here. People hear what they want to hear and read what they want to read.
They have the right to set rules and regulations. If you don't comply with the rules and regulations they have the right to escort you to the nearest exit. You have the right to comply with the rules and regulations. Or, you have the right to leave on your own accord.
My business? I get to say whether my employees get vaccinated or not. They get to say whether they want to work for me or find another job.
I don't usually get this adamant about things. However, I've got to admit that anti-vaccine nuts get me worked up. Vaccines are the cheapest, most effective way to prevent infectious disease. The side effects from vaccines are few. Taking a shot is far safer than driving a car. We have 40,000 deaths per year in this country from motor vehicle accidents. Deaths from allergic reactions from all vaccines account for less than 1000 deaths per year. If that number doesn't seem small to you than remember that tens of millions of people are being vaccinated every year. Weigh that risk against preventing tens of thousands of deaths every year from diseases like red measles, diptheria, polio, and influenza and any rational person can see that the slight risk posed by vaccination is worth it several times over. The only people who should be exempted from vaccination are those who can demonstrate at least a reasonable possibility they could be allergic to a vaccine.
The whole "freedom" argument is ridiculous when it comes to vaccination. There is no such a thing as the "freedom to die of an infectious disease" (or more importantly the "freedom" to cause others to do so).
I sometimes wonder how we ever got so many irrational, uneducated people in this country.
You quoted me, but you did not answer my question.
Within the law of course, and actions like this usually end up resulting in more employer protection laws to address issues like this.
You think an employer should be allowed to tell someone who to vote for? What to eat and drink? How far into an employee's life do you think an employer should be allowed to go?
It is for reasons like this is why we have so many employee protection laws. I expect mandatory vaccinations with the exception of a business necessity will eventually come up. Look at GINA, the government seriously had to do this; look at all the EEO laws, yes, the government had to do these as well.
My business? I get to say whether my employees get vaccinated or not. They get to say whether they want to work for me or find another job.
What gives you the right, as an employer, to force your beliefs on the personal, medical choices of your employees?
My business...I demand my employyes say a prayer at the start of a work day...if they don't like it, they can work elsewhere.
My business...I demand my employees exercise at least one hour per day...if they don't like it, they can work elsewhere.
My business...I can demand that all women wear short skirts to work...if they don't like it, they can work elsewhere.
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Originally Posted by markg91359
However, I've got to admit that anti-vaccine nuts get me worked up.
On this we agree. Idiots who get their medical advice from Jenny McCarthy...
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359
The whole "freedom" argument is ridiculous when it comes to vaccination. There is no such a thing as the "freedom to die of an infectious disease" (or more importantly the "freedom" to cause others to do so).
So you are saying people should not have the "freedom" to decide their own, personal standard of medical care? Got it.
My only question is regarding employer mandated Flu Vaccine... I have no knowledge or opinion on other vaccines.
My personal physician and friend is not gunge-ho on all vaccines... some he is very much in favor and others that are more recent he is neutral on or only recommended in specific circumstances.
Back to the employer mandate key points.
My employer sprung it on me... in other words, report to the conference room and then I was told to roll up my sleeve... no explanation, no opportunity for informed consent... not even a handout.
When I pressed the issue, I was told to go to the time clock where a letter is posted from the County Health Department... I mostly work off-site and have never punched a time card... I have no reason to go to the time clock ever.
Anyway... I read the letter and it was clear it didn't apply to me...
Mentioned it to upper management and was told I still needed it.
Then I called the county and asked to speak the Doctor/Director that wrote the letter...
Very nice guy... asked me about my job and said the Order/Directive doesn't apply to me and sent me an e-mail stating the same.
So... in short order, I confirmed my position with the head of the regulatory agency and was validated.
Now, I'm being told it is company policy even though I was never notified of this and I actually write portions of company policy...
Reading some of the replies has given me great concern...
I cannot believe how many, at least how many have said... they would just blindly submit without question to injections...
On a separate note... the Country Director also confirmed mercury preservative free dosage is available and actually is the only vaccine recommended for certain demographics.
A question to the forum to those that would simply accept the vaccine... What is your opinion if a safer version is available and the employer will not allow the option... even if the employee is willing to pay the difference?
What gives you the right, as an employer, to force your beliefs on the personal, medical choices of your employees?
You characterize this completely wrong. Its not a question of my telling employees what they have to "believe". Its a question of my demanding that they engage in a medical practice--immunization--which has health benefits for my entire work place. I could care less whether my employees believe in devil worship or fundamentalist Christianity. As long as they don't bring it to my workplace. Terrific.
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My business...I demand my employyes say a prayer at the start of a work day...if they don't like it, they can work elsewhere.
An employer can't do that because this would be expressly prohibited by the Civil Rights Act of 1964. The act precludes discrimination on the basis of race, sex, national origin, or religion. Nothing in the act prohibits me from demanding my employees get an immunization to protect the work place from an epidemic of influenza.
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My business...I demand my employees exercise at least one hour per day...if they don't like it, they can work elsewhere.
I believe if an employer wanted too, that he could do that. Many workplaces give employees a reduction on health insurance premiums if they can show they are exercising. My wife's workplace does this. Possibly, a disabled employee could object to this under the ADA. However, if accommodation is made for such an employee, I believe this to be perfectly legal.
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My business...I can demand that all women wear short skirts to work...if they don't like it, they can work elsewhere.
Sexual discrimination is prohibited by the Civil Rights Act of 1964. To be totally flippant, I did wonder this: If an employer demanded that all men wear short skirts to work too would it be sexual discrimination to demand that women do the same? I'll just say that won't happen and forcing women alone to follow this rule clearly violates the act. So, no and employer can't do that.
Quote:
So you are saying people should not have the "freedom" to decide their own, personal standard of medical care? Got it.
The problem is that its not simply a question of personal freedom. Not vaccinating yourself potentially makes you a carrier of diseases that cause both morbidity and mortality. If you are in contact with me, my other employees, and customers of my business you can't claim that you're the only one impacted. You don't have to work for me if you don't like it. There's lots of other jobs and employers out there.
Again, I don't regard the "right to become sick with a contagious disease" as a freedom. Its some phony bill of goods that you may believe is a freedom.
You characterize this completely wrong. Its not a question of my telling employees what they have to "believe". Its a question of my demanding that they engage in a medical practice--immunization--which has health benefits for my entire work place. I could care less whether my employees believe in devil worship or fundamentalist Christianity. As long as they don't bring it to my workplace. Terrific.
An employer can't do that because this would be expressly prohibited by the Civil Rights Act of 1964. The act precludes discrimination on the basis of race, sex, national origin, or religion. Nothing in the act prohibits me from demanding my employees get an immunization to protect the work place from an epidemic of influenza.
I believe if an employer wanted too, that he could do that. Many workplaces give employees a reduction on health insurance premiums if they can show they are exercising. My wife's workplace does this. Possibly, a disabled employee could object to this under the ADA. However, if accommodation is made for such an employee, I believe this to be perfectly legal.
Sexual discrimination is prohibited by the Civil Rights Act of 1964. To be totally flippant, I did wonder this: If an employer demanded that all men wear short skirts to work too would it be sexual discrimination to demand that women do the same? I'll just say that won't happen and forcing women alone to follow this rule clearly violates the act. So, no and employer can't do that.
The problem is that its not simply a question of personal freedom. Not vaccinating yourself potentially makes you a carrier of diseases that cause both morbidity and mortality. If you are in contact with me, my other employees, and customers of my business you can't claim that you're the only one impacted. You don't have to work for me if you don't like it. There's lots of other jobs and employers out there.
Again, I don't regard the "right to become sick with a contagious disease" as a freedom. Its some phony bill of goods that you may believe is a freedom.
So what you are saying is that you do it only because you legally can, correct? So the source of your justification is the fact there is no law against it, correct?
You quoted me, but you did not answer my question.
No, I answered it. You just didn't like the answer.
You asked "how far can an employer go".
My answer was that under the "employment at will doctrine", an employer can do just about what he wants unless:
1. He discriminates on the basis of race, sex, religion, or national origin.
2. He hires, fires, or disciplines because an employee either joined or organized a union. and
3. Discrimination on the basis of pregnancy, sexual orientation is illegal under some state laws.
Other than that, an employer can go about as far as he wants in terms of requiring actions from his employees. They have the freedom to quit if they don't like it. I would recommend that any employee who feels this way should go out and set up his own business, so that he can be the boss and makes these decisions on his own.
I work in healthcare and am require to get a vaccine. No biggie.
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