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Old 11-19-2012, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,408 posts, read 33,242,509 times
Reputation: 7338

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
Did you even read the article you quoted? They get all that money back.
Yes, I did. No, they were not getting ALL of that money back. You read more carefully, plus consider where that quote came from, a union official backpedalling furiously. Funny if they were getting ALL of that money back that they balked. Funny too how the union itself backed down completely on their demands if it was so on the "up and up." Unions, like management, DO cause problems. It is a two-way street. Of course "proving" this to union fanboys, who probably live in red right-to-work states where they are sitting comfy in their easy chairs and THEIR electricity, a public necessity, will never be disrupted by union/management problems, is as futile as trying to prove the Halocaust did indeed exist to Halocaust deniers. People will believe what they want to believe.

Just because something wasn't widely reported in the national media does not mean it did not happen.

For example, how many of you across the country actually heard in the national media about all the destruction Hurricane Sandy did to Long Island? Not many. We were seriously underrepresented in the national media compared to New Jersey and NYC. However, it remains a fact that many homes on LI were just as flattened as what you saw on TV in Staten Island and New Jersey. We just didn't get the publicity the other places did.
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,408 posts, read 33,242,509 times
Reputation: 7338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
This is a typical no-win situation of two opposing factions, neither planted firmly in reality.

Did management really expect the unions to buy the "we are broke and you must sacrifice more in order to have a job" story after tripling the CEO's pay?

Did the striking union really expect that management would eventually pony up with what they wanted? Did the members of the striking union seriously consider the consequence that the company might close?

They both killed "the golden goose" of their employment with the opening shot fired by management. Too bad management has golden parachutes and the average worker does not.
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:33 AM
 
12,973 posts, read 15,762,680 times
Reputation: 5478
Quote:
Originally Posted by City Guy997S View Post
Reply for the above 2 (Wisc Woman and JNich)

Walmart is probably one of the best American success stories we would all agree but their wages/lack of unions/benefits are not their high point but retail store jobs (stocking, cashiers, janitorial, etc) are not rocket science. You can't offer great prices for the masses and pay your cashiers $25 an hour w/benefits/pensions etc. Can you imagine what Walmart pays into Social Security, FICA on a weekly basis? Keep in mind a $10 employee will cost Walmart more than that after taxes/workers comp (though I think they are self insured). Employee looks at his net check, though the opportunity cost for Walmart is the gross number!

Walmart doesn't force anyone to work there and simply pays what the job is worth! Walmart cashier/stocking jobs are not career moves, stepping stone jobs certainly but it isn't a career for life! There is a trend in America that is trying to make everyone happy, yes you should go to college, yes you should get a new car (Clunker Program), yes you should buy a home with nothing down/low interest for 30 years and your job should give you free health insurance....Where does the insanity end? The Walton family are billionaires, but why hold that against them when someone who didn't finish high school is making $9 an hour stocking shelves at a Walmart? Where is the personal responsibility?

Writing is on the wall folks.......Press too hard and they close up shop, move to friendlier countries.
Walmart is not moving anywhere. It is an American distribution company....not a relocatable manufacturer.

What it does is basically subsidize its operations with tax payer money. And what it does is force its competition to lower benefits to compete.

Sam Walton was a buy America guy. But after his departure the family chose to become the distribution arm for China Inc. That solved perhaps the biggest problem the Chinese had. Low lablor costs gave the Chines a cost advantage but the lack of an American distriubtion capability limited their implact. Walmart fixed that.

I have always felt that employer provided benefits were a bad idea. Better to go to governmental systems that effectively level the playing field and prevent a Walmart from dominating based upon its government subsidy. A set of tariffs to equalize low wages would also help.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:25 AM
 
2,949 posts, read 5,490,700 times
Reputation: 1635
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
Hostess Brands have been bankrupt for over a decade, yet management kept getting raises. This is a clear case of upper level owners/management shaking the tree as long as they could. Keep in mind Hostess is a private company.

I remember when US Airways went bankrupt the first time after 9/11. They asked for labor concessions while giving management huge bonuses. Even if labor WORKED FOR FREE the company was still going to lose hundreds of millions of dollars a quarter. It was a clear management failure, had nothing to do with labor. Labor can only build/sell what they are told to do.
That was the second time USAir went bankrupt. While I agree that the managment there was immoral, taking raises and golden parachutes while the workforce was giving concessions, the union workforce there had crazy work rules that were paying people double and triple time for sleeping in breakrooms. Mechanics would ride the train because if someone called in sick they had to call someone in, whether it was a slow day or not. Mechanics making 60/hr on double time would come in and work a whole shift and just park 3 airplanes. That was their day....make almost 500.00 to wave in 3 planes! They called it riding the train. If you worked so many days in a row, then all of your pay was double time. Guys would work 2 or 3 weeks in a row at 60 or 90 per hour. The waste was in the work rules. Management had no flexibility. But like I said, upper management still got paid regardless. So they were both at fault which is usually the case. My take on the whole union thing is, it`s your choice. If you think the union is going to help you then go for it. The people at hostess stood their ground and now they have to deal with the consequences of their choice...right or wrong. We have seen union people slowly losing their jobs over the years. We can complain all we want about how much high level managers and ceo`s make. But you work for them. They don`t work for you. I don`t agree with how much athletes and hollywood people get paid either, but you get paid what the market says you are worth. Whether we personally think someone is worth what they make or not. Union people don`t want to blame the union for anything and say it`s all managements fault and management wants to blame the unions for everything. They both have a part in ruining companies.
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:02 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 15,762,680 times
Reputation: 5478
Interesting piece on the Twinkie ploy in the Street...

Twinkies Defense Is Private Equity's Pension Offense: Street Whispers - TheStreet

Points out that the real motivator is to dump the pensions to the government....then sell the remainder without the pension liability. The Bakers just provided a convenient excuse.
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:04 PM
 
5,453 posts, read 9,275,174 times
Reputation: 2141
Why should they do that? Twinkies is not owned by the Gov!


Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
Interesting piece on the Twinkie ploy in the Street...

Twinkies Defense Is Private Equity's Pension Offense: Street Whispers - TheStreet

Points out that the real motivator is to dump the pensions to the government....then sell the remainder without the pension liability. The Bakers just provided a convenient excuse.
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:11 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 15,762,680 times
Reputation: 5478
Quote:
Originally Posted by algia View Post
Why should they do that? Twinkies is not owned by the Gov!
PBGC...read the article which explains how it works.
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:36 PM
 
13,811 posts, read 27,381,906 times
Reputation: 14244
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
Interesting piece on the Twinkie ploy in the Street...

Twinkies Defense Is Private Equity's Pension Offense: Street Whispers - TheStreet

Points out that the real motivator is to dump the pensions to the government....then sell the remainder without the pension liability. The Bakers just provided a convenient excuse.
That is exactly what US Air management did. In fact the pilots union had emails from management to the pension administrator directing them to lose enough money in order to make the fund underfunded enough so US Air could then declare BK. The pensions were dumped on the US taxpayer then.

This whole thing is a sham but you have the 99% here joyously rejoicing in others fighting management.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Yucaipa, California
9,894 posts, read 21,978,332 times
Reputation: 6852
I sure wish tastykake out of philly was sold here in ca. They are better then hostess. I also miss the gobs from yost bakery in johnstown, pa & hires rootbeer.
We have little debby & mrs.red here & they are so so.
Tastykake | Tasty Baking Company | Fresh Krimpets, Cupcakes & More
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:37 PM
 
2,845 posts, read 6,001,331 times
Reputation: 3749
The whole thing is ridiculous, management should never be getting 67% raises while the rest of the company is going down the toilet, it's just not ethical. They should have been taking pay cuts as well all those years ago.

Course now it doesn't even matter, let's just hope some company buys them and the twinkies continue and the new company does things the right way.

Seriously I can understand wanting to make money, but at the cost of thousands of people's jobs and livelihoods? It's just not right.

It's time people start remembering America is going to sh*t at this rate, and it's time we start helping each other out rather than creating a larger divide between the rich and the poor.
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