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When my current employer hired me, they clearly indicated that our work schedules were 8:30am to 5pm Monday through Friday. Obviously, if things get busy, it wouldn't be unusual to work a half hour or hour later here and there. I don't have a problem with that. However, now they are threatening us during the year end chaos that we are expected to work 12 hour minimums and very possibly this upcoming weekend before the last day of the year. All of this, mind you, is unpaid overtime. On top of it, it's during a time of year that is usually associated with holidays and family events. This is what really irks me.
I'm just curious how many people are noticing this: that employers think they are entitled to as much of your time as they feel simply because they pay you a salary. I am assuming this is a fairly common practice during this time of economic imbalance. Do you agree? Otherwise, I would think that companies who act in this manner would have a much more difficult time retaining talent.
Frankly, I'm just curious if there is a limit. I suppose they could require you to work 24 hours a day if they deemed it necessary for the success of the business. How many of you work for companies with this entitlement attitude? I do, and I hate my job!
That is certainly more common when the economy is not so great. However, there are some jobs that are always like that. When I was a public school teacher, even though the economy was great and teachers were hard to find, the expectation was to dedicate every waking moment of your life, be it weekends or evenings, summers, whatever. It was an actual expectation that you would put in a minimum of 55 hours a week, and that was the minimum. "Good" teachers put in 65-70. If there was something on a weekend or evening (meetings, trainings, special projects - there was always something), one was expected to quickly agree. It was totally unacceptable to say you had plans or wanted to spend time with your family, or in any way to imply that you would put your personal life or personal time above the all-consuming all-important needs of the students (even if the extra work had zero to do with students and was mostly bureaucratic BS).
Now I work in a place where they pay us almost nothing and we have no benefits, but they never expect us to give even one extra moment. If we do, they pay us a little extra for it and it's always a choice. There are no required meetings or anything. I love it. Most of us in the office came from public education, and we all say we'd never go back to that for any amount of money.
I think it's influenced by the economy, but I think that attitude is part of a work-place culture. Some places have it, others don't. In a good economy, it's probably just a matter of less qualified people working in those places and more turnover, whereas people are more likely to put up with it longer in a bad economy.
That is certainly more common when the economy is not so great. However, there are some jobs that are always like that. When I was a public school teacher, even though the economy was great and teachers were hard to find, the expectation was to dedicate every waking moment of your life, be it weekends or evenings, summers, whatever. It was an actual expectation that you would put in a minimum of 55 hours a week, and that was the minimum. "Good" teachers put in 65-70. If there was something on a weekend or evening (meetings, trainings, special projects - there was always something), one was expected to quickly agree. It was totally unacceptable to say you had plans or wanted to spend time with your family, or in any way to imply that you would put your personal life or personal time above the all-consuming all-important needs of the students (even if the extra work had zero to do with students and was mostly bureaucratic BS).
Now I work in a place where they pay us almost nothing and we have no benefits, but they never expect us to give even one extra moment. If we do, they pay us a little extra for it and it's always a choice. There are no required meetings or anything. I love it. Most of us in the office came from public education, and we all say we'd never go back to that for any amount of money.
I think it's influenced by the economy, but I think that attitude is part of a work-place culture. Some places have it, others don't. In a good economy, it's probably just a matter of less qualified people working in those places and more turnover, whereas people are more likely to put up with it longer in a bad economy.
Tekkie: Pretty much what this poster said, some jobs are always like that but yes, in an economy like this, you'll see some employers taking advantage and their response is, 'Don't like it, leave'. That attitude was not always in play. I like to make a note of which companies are acting like this because eventually, hopefully, one day things will turn around and the employees will be in demand again like they were. When that happens, I will remember those companies who treated people like that and find alternatives to their business.
We suck it up now, but we remember when, (if), things turn back around. I have a list of companies I will no longer give my hard earned money to BECAUSE of this attitude.
Jobs are an exchange: You exchange your work for money from them. If you feel you aren't getting a fair exchange, it might be time to find something else. In some ways, salary works well for people for reasons others have mentioned. Other times...not so much.
If it bothered really bothered me I would do two things. First I would be looking for a new job. Second, I would talk with my manager. Explain that this is not what you were told when you accepted the job. See what happens.
Hopefully, you have 2+ years of living expenses saved up so you can man up for that conversation if things turn south in the worst case scenario.
Anyways, I vehemently oppose this sort of mentality and I will fight it if it doesn't put me in dire financial straits or end my career. I see the employer as an equal trading partner that I provide specific services for in exchange for money, not as some supreme being whose every little desire and concern need to be resolved. Whether my employer sees it that way or not, I could care less.
In the meantime, focus on getting results for the company. They say work 12 hour days.. you should strive to accomplish what most people can do in 12 hours in a fraction of that time. Use the 80/20 Rule for inspiration for that.
Last edited by ragnarkar; 12-23-2012 at 01:52 PM..
Hopefully, you have 2+ years of living expenses saved up so you can man up for that conversation if things turn south in the worst case scenario.
Anyways, I vehemently oppose this sort of mentality and I will fight it if it doesn't put me in dire financial straits or end my career. I see the employer as an equal trading partner that I provide specific services for in exchange for money, not as some supreme being whose every little desire and concern need to be resolved. Whether my employer sees it that way or not, I could care less.
In the meantime, focus on getting results for the company. They say work 12 hour days.. you should strive to accomplish what most people can do in 12 hours in a fraction of that time. Use the 80/20 Rule for inspiration for that.
2+ years of savings? Haha, well I certainly do not, but I do not intend to make any threats of leaving. At least for Monday and the following weekend, I will let them know when I have to go and leave it at that. We are supposed to get off tomorrow at 3pm. Any time beyond that I feel that it is reasonable to take off.
2+ years of savings? Haha, well I certainly do not, but I do not intend to make any threats of leaving. At least for Monday and the following weekend, I will let them know when I have to go and leave it at that. We are supposed to get off tomorrow at 3pm. Any time beyond that I feel that it is reasonable to take off.
As long as you are not missing deadlines, then I am sure they will be ok with you leaving at 3.
This isn't new, employers have always expected employees to be available, even on days off. I'm not talking management but production line workers. When I worked in a factory overtime wasn't exactly mandatory if asked but if you turned it down too often you would have a counseling meeting with the shift foreman, the union steward and HR (this was a union shop, by the way). You definitely got the impression that you wouldn't turn overtime down anymore.
If you think it's going to change going forward then think again. With the current fascination with being plugged in and connected around the clock it will only get worse. I had a cardiac event last summer that landed me in the hospital overnight. And even though I teach and am technically off during the summer I constantly have to answer emails, go in to school and deal with issues. I had Mrs. NBP contact my Principal to let him know I was in the hospital and unavailable. He asked her if I could deal with an issue while I was there.
OP, I would have started looking for a new job yesterday, secretly of course, and then when I had a firm offer from a reasonable employer, bye bye!!!
If you agreed to work 8:30 a.m.- 5:00 p.m. and they are pulling this 12 hour a day crap on you, and ESPECIALLY not paying you for it, leave! That should be a no-brainer. If they had discussed that with you when you hired on, that is one thing, but to make you work sweatshop hours without you agreeing to it is disgusting.
I did the 12 hour a day thing a few years ago. Naive me thought that was how you move up, by working ridiculous hours. Well, I was wrong. I got laid off after about a year and a half.
Now I strictly work 40 hours a week just like everyone else. I don't miss living in the office.. at all.
2+ years of savings? Haha, well I certainly do not, but I do not intend to make any threats of leaving. At least for Monday and the following weekend, I will let them know when I have to go and leave it at that. We are supposed to get off tomorrow at 3pm. Any time beyond that I feel that it is reasonable to take off.
Well, I used to be very afraid of standing up to these sorts of abuses due to fear of being laid off. Once I had about 2 years of living expenses saved up, I finally realized that the worst case scenario wasn't so bad if I were to walk away or stand up to a persistently abusive employer. 2 years is a ridiculously long time for a hard working and qualified person to stay unemployed esp if they've got so much available time to find a new job so it became a non-issue to me.
You may not necessarily need a cushion of 2 years as a bottom line though to feel comfortable though..
Heck, if it's possible to just say 'no' to them, I'd like to hear some insights on it and how to handle it properly. That's exactly what I want to tell them for days likes Monday (Christmas Eve) where I have a family function in the evening and next weekend (which I do not want to work as I'm out of town visiting family). If there's a legit way of telling them 'no', please share. I'm desperate until I find a new job.
As a salaried employee you basically are required to work whatever hours are request to meet business needs...However, if you already have plans, which I'm assuming they approved your days off, then perhaps you can negotiate to work different extra hours...you want to make sure that when tell them no, because you have approved time off, you are willing to help the team meet their goals....be sure you have a plan on how to do that, or they will come up with something unpleasant for you.
Oh wait, you are taking about an evening and weekend days...you can still propose an alternative schedule. I know it sucks....can you come in earlier? do you have the option to work from home? can you work later on some of the other evenings? the other thing you could do although it might be a little late, is get a doctor's excuse basically saying that you can't work more than "x" hours per week. You don't have to provide the reason to your company, just the doctor's note.
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