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Liberal arts majors are a dime a dozen. And "liberal arts major" screams "I couldn't decide what to major in" or "I wanted to get a degree with the easiest classes possible". It might not be true, but it is the common perception.
Read the article a few posts up, it's rather good. These statements just aren't true and it's a terrible misconception, not to mention stigma that degree holders often have to circumvent just to get a fair shot in Corporate America.
Read the article a few posts up, it's rather good. These statements just aren't true and it's a terrible misconception, not to mention stigma that degree holders often have to circumvent just to get a fair shot in Corporate America.
I read the article and I agree with the arguments they made. The problem is that the article was filled with a lot of theories as to why liberal arts degrees are valuable and not a lot of stats illustrating that they are valuable. They referenced some studies, but I would have liked to have seen some data. Most university departments/professors will tell students they can get a job with their degree, but the legions of Philosophy and <Insert Minority Here> Studies Majors working as barristas don't necessarily back that up.
I think theoretically a liberal arts degree is more useful than a general business degree. It would certainly teach the student how to think and write more effectively than a general Business BS. The truth about the modern workplace is that very few of us directly use the lessons we learned in college. Every organization is different and the most important knowledge is learned on the job.
That said, corporate American perception already exists and students should be aware that there are stigmas attached to certain degrees, particularly if the student doesn't follow the undergrad degree up with an advanced degree.
I read the article and I agree with the arguments they made. The problem is that the article was filled with a lot of theories as to why liberal arts degrees are valuable and not a lot of stats illustrating that they are valuable. They referenced some studies, but I would have liked to have seen some data. Most university departments/professors will tell students they can get a job with their degree, but the legions of Philosophy and <Insert Minority Here> Studies Majors working as barristas don't necessarily back that up.
I think theoretically a liberal arts degree is more useful than a general business degree. It would certainly teach the student how to think and write more effectively than a general Business BS. The truth about the modern workplace is that very few of us directly use the lessons we learned in college. Every organization is different and the most important knowledge is learned on the job.
That said, corporate American perception already exists and students should be aware that there are stigmas attached to certain degrees, particularly if the student doesn't follow the undergrad degree up with an advanced degree.
Do you think that the people working as barristas have created their own barriers to better paying jobs? I work with mostly liberal arts majors and some business/finance majors and these are good paying professional jobs we have for our age and years of experience. I just think that a lot of times the folks you see in the low paying jobs with these degrees have more or less chosen that path or haven't made the leap to the next level.
Can you believe there are actually MBAs out on the road driving rigs? Should we just chalk up the MBA as a degree with limited opportunity because of this? Or can we derive from the situation that maybe the MBA actually has chosen the path to be a driver because s/he likes it more than being in the corporate environment?
Remember, in statistics, you don't want to confuse correlation with causation. I think what you are pointing out is a correlation you have observed, but you haven't proven causation, or if/because a, then b.
Despite what stigmas might exist (amongst a minority of naysayers nonetheless), there is still opportunity for a liberal arts grad right out of the gate. It might not be a primo $80k/yr gig, but that is also not out of the question after you put some time in on the factory floor, so to speak.
I know what you are saying and I agree with you to an extent. A lot of the barristas or retail workers with degrees are doing those jobs because they have made a choice not to make that leap. However, I do wonder if there is not a personality factor that comes into play that leads people to major in something like philosophy and then do nothing but work at a Starbucks or Barnes and Noble. In other words, the major is not the cause of their stagnant career but, rather, the major and positions they choose to work are a reflection of an aspect of their personality. But I do think that the degree can be a limiting factor to some people, largely due to stigmas.
I would like to point out that people should do whatever makes them happy. If they get a doctorate but later decide they would rather drive a truck, more power to them. I just think it is disingenuous to believe that all degrees are inherently equal in value and earnings potential. This being the case, I would personally rank liberal arts towards the bottom, though this is not to say there aren't highly successful people with LA degrees. That's not a fact, but rather my own opinion.
However, I do wonder if there is not a personality factor that comes into play that leads people to major in something like philosophy and then do nothing but work at a Starbucks or Barnes and Noble. In other words, the major is not the cause of their stagnant career but, rather, the major and positions they choose to work are a reflection of an aspect of their personality. But I do think that the degree can be a limiting factor to some people, largely due to stigmas.
I think you nailed it with this. I think it's their personalities that lead them to this type of job and degree (the anti-establishment crowd), while more business-oriented LA majors find their way into professional, white collar roles. Just start a thread on this forum asking LA majors to state their lines of work and salaries and you will see a great variety of fields covered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by War Beagle
I just think it is disingenuous to believe that all degrees are inherently equal in value and earnings potential.
Of course not. The more rigorous a program is, the fewer people there are that complete it. Through basic principles of economics, we realize that their limited supply puts them at higher demand in most circumstances. I was in Bakersfield, CA last year and this guy I was talking to told me they were having a difficult time finding petroleum engineers. If they could find any, they'd end up making bank since they were hard to find.
I think you nailed it with this. I think it's their personalities that lead them to this type of job and degree (the anti-establishment crowd), while more business-oriented LA majors find their way into professional, white collar roles. Just start a thread on this forum asking LA majors to state their lines of work and salaries and you will see a great variety of fields covered.
You have a liberal arts degree and you can't answer those questions? Besides, you'd have to do the same for anyone else with any other type of degree in most cases. If you are that lazy that you don't want to spend time researching a candidate, perhaps you should not be in a position of hiring.
I am referencing the bachelors degree and not the masters..with that being said..
I can answer those questions and know i don't have to do the same with everyone else. I have researched enough degrees to know what each person has studied, I don't need to, but with a liberal arts since it's just a mish mash of classes, I would. I am not lazy, but apparently you have never worked human resources where you had to hire someone with a dead line. You should only comment on thinks that you know about, ok thanks.
I read the article and I agree with the arguments they made. The problem is that the article was filled with a lot of theories as to why liberal arts degrees are valuable and not a lot of stats illustrating that they are valuable. They referenced some studies, but I would have liked to have seen some data. Most university departments/professors will tell students they can get a job with their degree, but the legions of Philosophy and <Insert Minority Here> Studies Majors working as barristas don't necessarily back that up.
I think theoretically a liberal arts degree is more useful than a general business degree. It would certainly teach the student how to think and write more effectively than a general Business BS. The truth about the modern workplace is that very few of us directly use the lessons we learned in college. Every organization is different and the most important knowledge is learned on the job.
That said, corporate American perception already exists and students should be aware that there are stigmas attached to certain degrees, particularly if the student doesn't follow the undergrad degree up with an advanced degree.
I'll second that.....college is trade school of the 21st century.
The people making money with a liberal arts degree picked up another trade....however it would have been nice to start with a trade.
I just think that a lot of times the folks you see in the low paying jobs with these degrees have more or less chosen that path or haven't made the leap to the next level.
I find that assessment interesting. The question that arises is why hasn't the person in question with a college degree been able to rise up to a better paying job than something that pays 10 or 11 dollars an hour that's been out of college for 5 years or more.
I actually fit the statement you described. I've been out of college for almost 8 years now (graduated in May of 2005) with a bachelors in history and I've never made more than 14 dollars an hour. Most people my age (31) are probably making past 40K. The jobs I've taken are low paying and just aren't that impressive.
I find that assessment interesting. The question that arises is why hasn't the person in question with a college degree been able to rise up to a better paying job than something that pays 10 or 11 dollars an hour that's been out of college for 5 years or more.
I actually fit the statement you described. I've been out of college for almost 8 years now (graduated in May of 2005) with a bachelors in history and I've never made more than 14 dollars an hour. Most people my age (31) are probably making past 40K. The jobs I've taken are low paying and just aren't that impressive.
I don't know you personally, so I can't really say what the deal is in your situation. What type of jobs do you apply for?
My progression (starting in 2008, during the middle of the recession):
I moved across country to a better job market (and nicer scenery), no job lined up. I applied for anything and everything. I started out doing some temp assignments. Ultimately I found a job as an Operations/Warehouse Manager with a telecom company. I did that for about a year before I started looking for a new gig. I received an offer in the meantime and I used it as leverage in my current job and received a $2k/yr pay raise basically. I did the same about a year later and got another $6k. After another year, I left that company because there was nowhere to go upwards any time soon. The new gig got me another $3k. Last fall they promoted the team and I received another $4k boost. With the exception of that last bump in pay, I've had to work at making my salary increase almost $15k in four and a half years since I graduated college. Keep in mind this is during the recession as well.
I had no important contacts that helped me out during this, it was done all by myself. This sort of forward progress is a result of not wanting to settle. Can you say the same for yourself? Are you constantly striving to move forward in your career? Some people either don't care to do this or they are somewhat clueless as to what it's about. But, quite honestly, it's not that complex. You just have to have the determination to seek out opportunities and then a little good luck from time to time.
Last edited by Tekkie; 01-23-2013 at 10:12 PM..
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