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Old 03-16-2013, 04:42 PM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
1,201 posts, read 1,924,908 times
Reputation: 989

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I'm always confused when people want to throw the blame of our economic problems on immigrants. An immigrant has many more barriers to overcome than any born citizen, so if they have a job that you don't have or more money than you, it's likely because they were harder working and more resourceful than you. Period.

If a non-citizen immigrant has a job in this country, it is because an employer has provided proof that they could not fulfill the job with an American citizen. Yes, employers go out of their way to do this even when they probably really could find an American citizen to fill the role, but they do it so they can provide lower pay and working conditions that citizens would not put up with. An immigrant here on a work visa will put up will lots of illegal BS from employers because if they lose the job, they lose their ability to stay here.

As far as illegal immigrants, they are only here because employers do not want to pay a fair wage or offer legal working conditions. They are likely working for slave wages in unsafe conditions. And indirectly, we all benefit from this by having lower cost goods in some industries. If that bothers you, blame the employers who are being overly greedy. Or get one of those jobs yourself and see how it works out. My ex husband used to work in tobacco fields with illegal immigrants for about $2/hour.
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Old 03-16-2013, 04:52 PM
 
Location: upstate NY
61 posts, read 115,807 times
Reputation: 100
The American dream is still possible, it just takes more of an effort to achieve. I think effort and the American dream being "dead" go hand in hand. Not to many people want to make the effort old timers did to achieve anything. So for those people that don't want to make the effort I believe the dream is dead, for those with ambition its still a dream, or a reality.
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Old 03-16-2013, 04:57 PM
 
26,585 posts, read 62,043,904 times
Reputation: 13166
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmer437 View Post
The American dream is still possible, it just takes more of an effort to achieve. I think effort and the American dream being "dead" go hand in hand. Not to many people want to make the effort old timers did to achieve anything. So for those people that don't want to make the effort I believe the dream is dead, for those with ambition its still a dream, or a reality.
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Old 03-16-2013, 05:26 PM
 
10 posts, read 17,916 times
Reputation: 38
This "Dream" of which you speak sounds more like spoon-feed computer instructions. Or perhaps propaganda marketing to foreign nationals in third-world countries (give us your tired...) I've enjoyed all these things and no one of them has ever made me or my family happy. This "dream" is shackles and bondage in a futile effort to establish and maintain STATUS. Should any one of us care for a car which says what of us? That we plop our overfed butts in luxurious heated leather seats for the stress-filled 30 minute commute to the job we hate so we can make the monthly payment on time? Forego the dream part, this doesn't come close to being anything remotely American. Sounds more like the slavery we abolished as the affront to our American ideals. Think it over.
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Old 03-16-2013, 05:38 PM
 
26,585 posts, read 62,043,904 times
Reputation: 13166
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenaZ28 View Post
This "Dream" of which you speak sounds more like spoon-feed computer instructions. Or perhaps propaganda marketing to foreign nationals in third-world countries (give us your tired...) I've enjoyed all these things and no one of them has ever made me or my family happy. This "dream" is shackles and bondage in a futile effort to establish and maintain STATUS. Should any one of us care for a car which says what of us? That we plop our overfed butts in luxurious heated leather seats for the stress-filled 30 minute commute to the job we hate so we can make the monthly payment on time? Forego the dream part, this doesn't come close to being anything remotely American. Sounds more like the slavery we abolished as the affront to our American ideals. Think it over.
Some of us like our jobs and don't have heated seats, a commute, or monthly payments... Those that can't say the same thing need to reassess their lives. Think it over.
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Old 03-16-2013, 06:08 PM
 
229 posts, read 293,724 times
Reputation: 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmer437 View Post
The American dream is still possible, it just takes more of an effort to achieve.
Not the point. Of course it's possible. Everything is possible. The point is that things should have been getting better. Each generation should have a better standard of living than the previous one but that's not the case. Things today are worse than before, much worse...
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Old 03-16-2013, 06:42 PM
 
2,135 posts, read 4,273,726 times
Reputation: 1688
Quote:
Originally Posted by im_a_lawyer View Post
Not the point. Of course it's possible. Everything is possible. The point is that things should have been getting better. Each generation should have a better standard of living than the previous one but that's not the case. Things today are worse than before, much worse...
If life was perfect it would be that way. Life isn't perfect though. We just have to adapt or get left behind. Ill adapt.
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:01 PM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
1,201 posts, read 1,924,908 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by im_a_lawyer View Post
Not the point. Of course it's possible. Everything is possible. The point is that things should have been getting better. Each generation should have a better standard of living than the previous one but that's not the case. Things today are worse than before, much worse...
I don't see how it could be possible for every generation to have a better standard of living than before. There are not enough resources to go around in that way. Infinite growth is not possible. Basically, what we are seeing now is a redistribution of American's wealth to more of the world. For many years, America had way more wealth than pretty much any other country. Now, because of globalization, some other countries are getting a piece of the pie, as poorer countries have been increasing their GDPs each year while we are stagnating. I'm sure their standard of living will continue to increase for a few generations and then began to stagnate as well, unless some geniuses come up with some really fancy social policies and technologies. Also, when cheap oil dimishes, we are all gonna be looking forward to a lower standard of living unless we invest in renewable energy now...while we can build/develop that stuff with the cheap oil!
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Old 03-16-2013, 08:53 PM
 
5,500 posts, read 10,520,957 times
Reputation: 2303
Quote:
Originally Posted by im_a_lawyer View Post
Not the point. Of course it's possible. Everything is possible. The point is that things should have been getting better. Each generation should have a better standard of living than the previous one but that's not the case. Things today are worse than before, much worse...
Yeah. That is not realistic.
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Old 03-16-2013, 08:55 PM
 
5,500 posts, read 10,520,957 times
Reputation: 2303
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenaZ28 View Post
This "Dream" of which you speak sounds more like spoon-feed computer instructions. Or perhaps propaganda marketing to foreign nationals in third-world countries (give us your tired...) I've enjoyed all these things and no one of them has ever made me or my family happy. This "dream" is shackles and bondage in a futile effort to establish and maintain STATUS. Should any one of us care for a car which says what of us? That we plop our overfed butts in luxurious heated leather seats for the stress-filled 30 minute commute to the job we hate so we can make the monthly payment on time? Forego the dream part, this doesn't come close to being anything remotely American. Sounds more like the slavery we abolished as the affront to our American ideals. Think it over.
Sounds like you got caught up with comparing yourself to others.
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