How to word a request for more than standard vacation time? (employment, apply)

[jaypee]

Originally Posted by War Beagle

I'm working on a written questionnaire for a potential employer. One of the questions regards salary, benefits and compensation. The only request that I have that is outside what they are likely to offer is more vacation time than most new employees receive. Any suggestions on how to word it firmly but not overly pushy or aggressive?

I had initially written something along the lines of "I would prefer to enter employment with 3 weeks of annual vacation leave", but that sounded too passive to me.

I don't understand ... a questionnaire for the employer to fill out?
When and how is this presented?

[avg12]

Originally Posted by War Beagle

I'm working on a written questionnaire for a potential employer.

Do you compose written questionnaires for companies that are interested in hiring?

Do you ask about salaries and all sorts of interesting things you can find in these?

[avg12]

Originally Posted by Moby Hick

I don't see why anybody would have trouble admitting this. I also don't see why an extra week of vacation should somehow be a different thing to negotiate for than a 1/52nd raise in salary and benefits.

Wouldn't it make more sense just to ask for more salary? I understand some jobs are constrained by budget, but usually there is room for a $5k increase or something when negotiating salary.

Then after salary has been approved, person starts, then a year finishes, the person can ask for unpaid time off when necessary. At that point, the employee has value to the company and unpaid time off would likely be approved as well.

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by avg12

Wouldn't it make more sense just to ask for more salary? I understand some jobs are constrained by budget, but usually there is room for a $5k increase or something when negotiating salary.

Then after salary has been approved, person starts, then a year finishes, the person can ask for unpaid time off when necessary. At that point, the employee has value to the company and unpaid time off would likely be approved as well.

If you actually want to have a life outside of work or to see your kids while they are young, you should probably find out whether or not the company is going to expect you there 50 weeks a year before you start. It's really a miserable life for more than a few years while you are starting.

[mitsguy2001]

I have never personally tried to negotiate extra vacation time, but I know many people who have, some successfully, some not. A few hints, based on their experience.

1. Ask for the vacation time after they hire you (not during the interview) but before you accept the job. That is when you have the most power.

2. You will have a better chance if you already have a non-refundable vacation already booked that you won't have enough vacation time to take, rather than if you just ask for extra vacation time.

3. Some say it's easier to negotiate extra pay, other say it's easier to negotiate extra vacation time. That depends on the company culture.

4. Let it be known that you are willing to work overtime so that your vacation doesn't impact project schedules at all.

5. I know some people who worked for companies that allowed negotiating salary but not vacation time to negotiate a slightly higher salary or a bonus, and then negotiate the ability to take unpaid time off, so that you break even.

[macroy]

I'm also not exactly sure what this questionnaire is pertaining to... understanding this would help us better formulate our answers.

Originally Posted by Rabrrita

As a business owner, I would advise you to think carefully about requesting vacation above what they offer unless you know they are going to expect such a request. Employers don't admit this but the reality is your asking them to pay you to do nothing for them. Vacation is all about you. It’s your own fun time away from the work being done and getting paid for it. To be honest with you, employers can deal with compensation increases, work schedule issues, and just about anything where you’re working and producing. Vacation is pure paid time off, not producing squat for the company, which makes it a harder pill for them to swallow.

I guess it depends on the position. If you're paying a position based on results, does it really matter how much vacation they take as long as the results are there?

[War Beagle]

I guess I was unclear as to the questionnaire. I applied for the job. They looked at my resume and told me they want to consider me further. They supplied me with a questionnaire of 5 questions to answer, one of which is "What are your salary and benefit requirements". Considering everyone gets the same health and retirement options everywhere, vacation time seems to be one of the few remaining non-salary benefits.

So no, I did not initiate the negotiations since they were the ones who asked me my requirements.

Originally Posted by Rabrrita

As a business owner, I would advise you to think carefully about requesting vacation above what they offer unless you know they are going to expect such a request. Employers don't admit this but the reality is your asking them to pay you to do nothing for them. Vacation is all about you. It’s your own fun time away from the work being done and getting paid for it. To be honest with you, employers can deal with compensation increases, work schedule issues, and just about anything where you’re working and producing. Vacation is pure paid time off, not producing squat for the company, which makes it a harder pill for them to swallow.

This is the traditional employer view of vacation time in the United States and it is a poorly thought out, short-sighted view. Two weeks of vacation in the span of a year is not nearly enough for people to recharge given the increasing demands of most jobs in this economy and the paltry number of paid vacations most employers provide. This miserly view does nothing but encourage the employee to try and put one over on the employer whenever possible and is probably detrimental to productivity overall.

Originally Posted by avg12

Wouldn't it make more sense just to ask for more salary? I understand some jobs are constrained by budget, but usually there is room for a $5k increase or something when negotiating salary.

Then after salary has been approved, person starts, then a year finishes, the person can ask for unpaid time off when necessary. At that point, the employee has value to the company and unpaid time off would likely be approved as well.

I don't think this makes much sense. First of all, some people value time more than they do money. Secondly, employees have no leverage to negotiate squat once they have agreed to the terms of employment. Also, I have never worked for a company that allows for unpaid time for anything except for discipline or health emergencies.

Originally Posted by mitsguy2001

I have never personally tried to negotiate extra vacation time, but I know many people who have, some successfully, some not. A few hints, based on their experience.

1. Ask for the vacation time after they hire you (not during the interview) but before you accept the job. That is when you have the most power.

2. You will have a better chance if you already have a non-refundable vacation already booked that you won't have enough vacation time to take, rather than if you just ask for extra vacation time.

3. Some say it's easier to negotiate extra pay, other say it's easier to negotiate extra vacation time. That depends on the company culture.

4. Let it be known that you are willing to work overtime so that your vacation doesn't impact project schedules at all.

5. I know some people who worked for companies that allowed negotiating salary but not vacation time to negotiate a slightly higher salary or a bonus, and then negotiate the ability to take unpaid time off, so that you break even.

Thanks. This is the most helpful and practical post I have received thus far. It may very well be that everyone must receive the same vacation allotment by policy, which I would be fine with, but I don't personally see any great harm in asking.

[kayanne]

Originally Posted by Rabrrita

Vacation is pure paid time off, not producing squat for the company, which makes it a harder pill for them to swallow.

This depends largely on whether the position is hourly or salaried, and whether or not the daily tasks during the vacation period are being done by another hourly person or will be stacking up for OP to take care of when returning to work after vacation.

For most management positions, "vacation" is more like "rearranging work." No one else does your work when you're on vacation. You put in extra hours prior to vacation to be as caught up as possible, you handle a lot of things via phone and email while you're gone, and then you put in long hours when you return to get through the mountains of things that have piled up.

Now, if you're a nurse in a hospital, or teacher, or restaurant worker, where the work has to be done on a day to day basis, then yes, vacation is actually getting away from work while someone else does it for you.

[EdJS]

In my current position, I tried negotiating for more vacation time. I did it at the time of my peak power: After I had been formally given an offer, but before I had accepted. They refused, but counter-offered with a bump in salary instead, which I took.

[Magnolia Bloom]

Originally Posted by War Beagle

I'm working on a written questionnaire for a potential employer. One of the questions regards salary, benefits and compensation. The only request that I have that is outside what they are likely to offer is more vacation time than most new employees receive. Any suggestions on how to word it firmly but not overly pushy or aggressive?

I had initially written something along the lines of "I would prefer to enter employment with 3 weeks of annual vacation leave", but that sounded too passive to me.

First get the fish on the line. The negotiation can start when the job is offered.