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Old 06-24-2013, 01:58 PM
 
2,344 posts, read 1,333,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
The 7th grade issue however goes back to the point I made earlier and was made previously from the West Wing, you have a person who is NOT directly affected by the act, offended. It's like if I am comedian and I joke about someone in the crowd say looks or something and nobody in the crowd is offended but it is posted online and somebody complains about the joke. The issue is sexual harassment is that kind of thing. A person who the joke wasn't intended for could be offended and it is sexual harassment.
I realize that's the law, but the problem with the law is thtat, no matter what anyone says, someone could possibly be offended. Does this mean that we should literally never open our mouths, for fear that someone not even involved could be offended by something innocent? How was calling that girl "Cinderella" when I was in 7th grade even remotely sexual?

The other problem is the double standards, where it seems only men are punished for sexual harassment, and only women are allowed to accuse people of sexual harassment. That girl Cindy in 7th grade also called me the names of various fictional characters, and our homeroom teacher and the assistant principal both knew that. But she was not given any punishment, nor was she even talked to. Certainly, she didn't deserve to be punished, since I was not offended, but she was not offended by me either.
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Old 06-24-2013, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
16,183 posts, read 21,827,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaypee View Post
Huh? We are talking about the workplace, correct? I don't know about you but I don't go around desiring to be offended. It's the opposite.
I chose that wording very carefully. Maybe, just maybe, you don't go around desiring to be offended by things that people do that have nothing to do with you, but plenty of people do, because if they can manage to be offended then they can be special and in control by getting someone else in trouble and making danged sure that no one ever does anything in their presence that they disapprove of. Never mind that they can get a nice settlement if they manage to pull it off.

As I started that post with, I'm not supporting porn in the workplace for reasons including that it is distracting from the purpose for being there for the person engaging in it. But the attitude goes far past pornography into many areas of life.

And the person who goes around being offended (and they are legion) is, indeed, infringing on the rights of the other person. Which was the actual point of the post you quoted.
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Old 06-24-2013, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
7,434 posts, read 2,569,964 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
But doesn't the person who is being offended cross the line because their desire to be offended infringes on the other person's rights, as well?

See how ridiculous this can become?

When did we all turn into such babies that anyone enjoying something we don't like becomes a reason to be offended? This, by the way, is not really about porn, but about the overweening attitude in our society that we really have a right not to ever be offended and someone who is doing something that offends us is violating our rights. That's insane. Not to mention entirely contradictory to what this country was founded on.
But who has more right, the person offended by the comment or is it the person who made the offensive comment? I think it would be the one offended 9 times out of 10.

I agree that the cycle is nuts but it is the field that we play on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaypee View Post
Huh? We are talking about the workplace, correct? I don't know about you but I don't go around desiring to be offended. It's the opposite.
That is the point, you don't go anywhere except maybe to a comedy club or a pro-wrestling event expecting to be offended in some way. The workplace is no different.
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Old 06-24-2013, 02:38 PM
FBJ
 
Location: Tall Building down by the river
32,901 posts, read 22,255,856 times
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Any person who would go on a porn site needs to be admitted into a mental institution because they are clearly not normal.


Why the hell would I want to be turned on at work?
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Old 06-24-2013, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
16,183 posts, read 21,827,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
But who has more right, the person offended by the comment or is it the person who made the offensive comment? I think it would be the one offended 9 times out of 10.

I agree that the cycle is nuts but it is the field that we play on.



That is the point, you don't go anywhere except maybe to a comedy club or a pro-wrestling event expecting to be offended in some way. The workplace is no different.
On what basis would you think that? (Again, we're not talking at this point about porn at work but about the larger subject into which porn at work or elsewhere falls.)

Maybe people who play the "offended" card offend ME? (Which, frankly, they do.) Now where are we?
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Old 06-24-2013, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
7,434 posts, read 2,569,964 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
On what basis would you think that? (Again, we're not talking at this point about porn at work but about the larger subject into which porn at work or elsewhere falls.)

Maybe people who play the "offended" card offend ME? (Which, frankly, they do.) Now where are we?
People can be offended by people who play victim (of the system, an unintended party, ect.) but it isn't a protected class offense. Making an even borderline sexual, racial or ability joke is being offensive to a protected class. That is where harassment law stands rather than, just being offended by anything. Though I am sure some people would say that is offensive.
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Old 06-24-2013, 03:20 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
8,465 posts, read 5,103,026 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
I chose that wording very carefully. Maybe, just maybe, you don't go around desiring to be offended by things that people do that have nothing to do with you, but plenty of people do, because if they can manage to be offended then they can be special and in control by getting someone else in trouble and making danged sure that no one ever does anything in their presence that they disapprove of. Never mind that they can get a nice settlement if they manage to pull it off.

As I started that post with, I'm not supporting porn in the workplace for reasons including that it is distracting from the purpose for being there for the person engaging in it. But the attitude goes far past pornography into many areas of life.

And the person who goes around being offended (and they are legion) is, indeed, infringing on the rights of the other person. Which was the actual point of the post you quoted.

Here's a novel idea: be aware of what constitutes sexual harassment and hostile work environment and act accordingly to protect yourself or your business from those litigious people.

I'm talking specifically about the workplace where people have to go to make a living. I don't give a hoot about who's offended in other aspects of life.
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Old 06-24-2013, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
16,183 posts, read 21,827,299 times
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Oh, I'm more than aware of protected classes and what constitutes protection of those things - it's not a novel idea to me at all (I used to be a legal assistant and could probably still find the case law, given I used to have to do that with books instead of computers). I could hardly do what I do and not be, if I weren't already because of situations I've seen where the "poor me, I'm sexually harassed" card was played when it was no such thing (the poster above who had an actual sexual harassment lawsuit will understand what I'm talking about, I'm sure), but they sure got a big paycheck for playing that card. (It's cheaper to settle than to fight such things, just as with most lawsuits) and other situations where the harassment was indeed real and damaging rather than "offensive".

It's not a matter of not knowing and obeying the law but examining the attitudes that have led to the laws being what they are, and watching for the damage that those attitudes can do and how those laws can be made useless by being applied to matters of offense rather than real harassment, if we let it happen. I recommend you watch that clip from West Wing that I linked to earlier, especially Ainsley's speech at the end. It makes it very clear just how damaging it can be to the REAL issues that need addressing.
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Old 06-24-2013, 03:36 PM
 
503 posts, read 416,251 times
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Quote:
And the person who goes around being offended (and they are legion) is, indeed, infringing on the rights of the other person. Which was the actual point of the post you quoted.

Maybe people who play the "offended" card offend ME? (Which, frankly, they do.) Now where are we?
You're infringing upon my rights by being offended about my offended state which is offensive.

It's not about opinions. It's about the law and workplace policy.
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Old 06-24-2013, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
7,434 posts, read 2,569,964 times
Reputation: 2732
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
Oh, I'm more than aware of protected classes and what constitutes protection of those things - it's not a novel idea to me at all (I used to be a legal assistant and could probably still find the case law, given I used to have to do that with books instead of computers). I could hardly do what I do and not be, if I weren't already because of situations I've seen where the "poor me, I'm sexually harassed" card was played when it was no such thing (the poster above who had an actual sexual harassment lawsuit will understand what I'm talking about, I'm sure), but they sure got a big paycheck for playing that card. (It's cheaper to settle than to fight such things, just as with most lawsuits) and other situations where the harassment was indeed real and damaging rather than "offensive".

It's not a matter of not knowing and obeying the law but examining the attitudes that have led to the laws being what they are, and watching for the damage that those attitudes can do and how those laws can be made useless by being applied to matters of offense rather than real harassment, if we let it happen. I recommend you watch that clip from West Wing that I linked to earlier, especially Ainsley's speech at the end. It makes it very clear just how damaging it can be to the REAL issues that need addressing.
It seems more of the people playing victim card annoys you because of the false cases that come up from time to time. I admit, it annoys me too BUT at the same time, there are cases where a comment like the one directed to Ainsley are in fact sexist but they are fine with it, doesn't mean a third party cannot be. If you want to have that kind of relationship someone you work with, do it AWAY FROM THE OFFICE.
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