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Old 07-05-2013, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Columbus, Ohio
1,413 posts, read 4,477,088 times
Reputation: 1434

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Quote:
Originally Posted by employee12 View Post
i am exampt.I am on salary.
Then you are not working overtime. The expectation for salary in most companies is you work as long as needed to get the job done.

This is at face value.

It depends on should you be salary. What is your job role?
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Old 07-05-2013, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,652 posts, read 60,572,966 times
Reputation: 101051
How many hours a week are you expected to work in your exempt, salaried position?
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Old 07-05-2013, 05:09 PM
 
6,928 posts, read 7,010,334 times
Reputation: 4340
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnp292 View Post
No one said finding a new job was easy. And advice to find a different job isn't advising one to up and quit.

Unfortunately, an employer who requires workers to put in unreasonable amounts of overtime is probably unlikely to be open to any sort of negotiation. In such a situation, the only choices are to put up with the status quo or make a change.
But my point is that, from my experience, every job within a particular industry will require about the same amount of overtime. Switching jobs is going to have a lot of hidden costs, require sacrifices, and probably won't reduce your overtime much, if at all.
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Old 07-05-2013, 05:10 PM
 
6,928 posts, read 7,010,334 times
Reputation: 4340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momotaro View Post
Then you are not working overtime. The expectation for salary in most companies is you work as long as needed to get the job done.

This is at face value.

It depends on should you be salary. What is your job role?
That is what needs to change. The law allows employers to expect exempt employees to do a ridiculous amount of work, and that becomes standard in many field, since enough people are willing and able to deal with that.
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Old 07-05-2013, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Arizona
6,129 posts, read 7,964,968 times
Reputation: 8272
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
But my point is that, from my experience, every job within a particular industry will require about the same amount of overtime. Switching jobs is going to have a lot of hidden costs, require sacrifices, and probably won't reduce your overtime much, if at all.
My experience has been different, but that's OK.

I have worked at places where the OT expectation was terrible, with no flexibility or comp time, and others where it was almost nonexistent. And not always disclosed beforehand. To your point, though, some vertical industries do tend to have similar demands for OT across the board. As with most things, its not a one size fits all situation.
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Old 07-06-2013, 06:02 AM
 
Location: Ohio
2,801 posts, read 2,303,477 times
Reputation: 1654
I don't know if the OP will be back but he/she needs to tell her/his job description and duties, whether he/she is legally an exempt employee is connected to the original question AND may change what he/she can do about the situation.

As said; an employee isn't "exempt" because the employer says they are.

There was a case years ago where an employer made a bunch of employees exempt and then required them to work a bunch of uncompensated OT, he ended up having to pay them for all the overtime they worked.
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Old 07-06-2013, 08:01 AM
 
6 posts, read 12,119 times
Reputation: 15
Employees who are paid less than $23,600 per year ($455 per week) are nonexempt. (Employees who earn more than $100,000 per year are almost certainly exempt.)->I am a senior cost accountant earning 97K a year without any bonus

regularly supervises two or more other employees, and also-> no
has management as the primary duty of the position, and also,-> no. I am not a manager
has some genuine input into the job status of other employees (such as hiring, firing, promotions, or assignments).-> hell no !

all I am doing is crunching numbers all day long, providing some scorecards and reports that nobody is looking at.
my work is quality and they tell me I am experienced and I know what I am doing blahblahblah ....can they still fire me because I refuse to do overtime even though there is nothing wrong with the quality of work ?
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Old 07-06-2013, 08:34 AM
 
Location: The Triad
34,090 posts, read 82,716,942 times
Reputation: 43659
Quote:
Originally Posted by employee12 View Post
I am (whatever position that they think requires) 97K...
How does anyone get to that level and not learn to ask these questions BEFORE taking the job.

Quote:
can they still fire me because...
Did you sign anything when you were hired?
How many hours do you actually work (avg per week etc)?

40hr @ $X per RT = 40X ; 20hr @ $1.5X OT = 30X
$97,000 (/52 /40) looks like $46~ per hour
$97,000 (/52 /70) looks like $26~ per hour

Maybe your cost accounting skill isn't so great?
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Old 07-06-2013, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,652 posts, read 60,572,966 times
Reputation: 101051
The OP needs to tell us how many hours a week he's working. Usually people making nearly $100,000 a year work more than 40 hours per week.
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Old 07-06-2013, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Columbus, Ohio
1,413 posts, read 4,477,088 times
Reputation: 1434
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
That is what needs to change. The law allows employers to expect exempt employees to do a ridiculous amount of work, and that becomes standard in many field, since enough people are willing and able to deal with that.
I am exempt and I disagree.

I am fine working 60 hour weeks, as there will be times I can work 20-30 and still get paid the same. I am in a position that is a legit salary position and I only refer to jobs that have a legit reason to be salary.

If folks who are salary do not like this, then they should stay as individual contributors or stay out of positions that are typically salary and let those who enjoy the flexibility live happily ever after.

I have so much more freedom as exempt than when I was non-exempt. I would not want to go back.

Also OP, you may want to read the whole page, especially this part.
Exempt professional job duties.

Quote:
The job duties of the traditional "learned professions" are exempt. These include lawyers, doctors, dentists, teachers, architects, clergy. Also included are registered nurses (but not LPNs), accountants (but not bookkeepers), engineers (who have engineering degrees or the equivalent and perform work of the sort usually performed by licensed professional engineers), actuaries, scientists (but not technicians), pharmacists, and other employees who perform work requiring "advanced knowledge" similar to that historically associated with the traditional learned professions.

Professionally exempt work means work which is predominantly intellectual, requires specialized education, and involves the exercise of discretion and judgment. Professionally exempt workers must have education beyond high school, and usually beyond college, in fields that are distinguished from (more "academic" than) the mechanical arts or skilled trades. Advanced degrees are the most common measure of this, but are not absolutely necessary if an employee has attained a similar level of advanced education through other means (and perform essentially the same kind of work as similar employees who do have advanced degrees).

Some employees may also perform "creative professional" job duties which are exempt. This classification applies to jobs such as actors, musicians, composers, writers, cartoonists, and some journalists. It is meant to cover employees in these kinds of jobs whose work requires invention, imagination, originality or talent; who contribute a unique interpretation or analysis.

Identifying most professionally exempt employees is usually pretty straightforward and uncontroversial, but this is not always the case. Whether a journalist is professionally exempt, for example, or a commercial artist, will likely require careful analysis of just what the employee actually does.

Exempt Administrative job duties.

The most elusive and imprecise of the definitions of exempt job duties is for exempt "administrative" job duties.

The Regulatory definition provides that exempt administrative job duties are

(a) office or nonmanual work, which is
(b) directly related to management or general business operations of the employer or the employer's customers, and
(c) a primary component of which involves the exercise of independent judgment and discretion about
(d) matters of significance.

The administrative exemption is designed for relatively high-level employees whose main job is to "keep the business running." A useful rule of thumb is to distinguish administrative employees from "operational" or "production" employees. Employees who make what the business sells are not administrative employees. Administrative employees provide "support" to the operational or production employees. They are "staff" rather than "line" employees. Examples of administrative functions include labor relations and personnel (human resources employees), payroll and finance (including budgeting and benefits management), records maintenance, accounting and tax, marketing and advertising (as differentiated from direct sales), quality control, public relations (including shareholder or investment relations, and government relations), legal and regulatory compliance, and some computer-related jobs (such as network, internet and database administration). (See Computer employees.)

To be exempt under the administrative exemption, the "staff" or "support" work must be office or nonmanual, and must be for matters of significance. Clerical employees perform office or nonmanual support work but are not administratively exempt. Nor is administrative work exempt just because it is financially important, in the sense that the employer would experience financial losses if the employee fails to perform competently. Administratively exempt work typically involves the exercise of discretion and judgment, with the authority to make independent decisions on matters which affect the business as a whole or a significant part of it.

Questions to ask might include whether the employee has the authority to formulate or interpret company policies; how major the employee's assignments are in relation to the overall business operations of the enterprise (buying paper clips versus buying a fleet of delivery vehicles, for example); whether the employee has the authority to commit the employer in matters which have significant financial impact; whether the employee has the authority to deviate from company policy without prior approval.

An example of administratively exempt work could be the buyer for a department store. S/he performs office or nonmanual work and is not engaged in production or sales. The job involves work which is necessary to the overall operation of the store -- selecting merchandize to be ordered as inventory. It is important work, since having the right inventory (and the right amount of inventory) is crucial to the overall well-being of the store's business. It involves the exercise of a good deal of important judgment and discretion, since it is up to the buyer to select items which will sell in sufficient quantity and at sufficient margins to be profitable. Other examples of administratively exempt employees might be planners and true administrative assistants (as differentiated from secretaries with fancy titles). Bookkeepers, "gal Fridays," and most employees who operate machines are not administratively exempt.

Merely clerical work may be administrative, but it is not exempt. Most secretaries, for example, may accurately be said to be performing administrative work, but their jobs are not usually exempt. Similarly, filing, filling out forms and preparing routine reports, answering telephones, making travel arrangements, working on customer "help desks," and similar jobs are not likely to be high-level enough to be administratively exempt. Many clerical workers do in fact exercise some discretion and judgment in their jobs. However, to "count" the exercise of judgment and discretion must be about matters of considerable importance to the operation of the enterprise as a whole.

Routinely ordering supplies (and even selecting which vendor to buy supplies from) is not likely to be considered high- enough to qualify the employee for administratively exempt status. There is no "bright line." Some secretaries may indeed be high-level, administratively exempt employees (for example, the secretary to the CEO who really does "run his life"), while some employees with fancy titles (e.g., "administrative assistant") may really be performing nonexempt clerical duties.

http://www.flsa.com/coverage.html

Sounds like you may just want to let someone else have a job that you certainly do not appreciate. I know there are many people who would love to earn $97k and work some extra hours because of it.

Last edited by Momotaro; 07-06-2013 at 09:26 AM..
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