News, Do you smoke cigarettes? US smokers face threat of being fired. (profit, job)

[Ohiogirl81]

It's discrimination, pure and simple. Smoking isn't illegal, nor does someone smoking on breaks or at home disrupt the workplace. And I'd just bet that no one in an upper management position in any corporation will ever lose his/her job over being a smoker.

Even given the economics of health care costs and evidence that smoking harms one's health, there still is no hard-and-fast way to know for certain if a smoker is going to use more health care resources than someone who doesn't smoke.

[sheri257]

Originally Posted by anifani821

I understand what you are saying but I still find it perplexing that employers can't fire others who cost much more and use many more healthcare resources, such as diabetics, the obese, people w/ disabilities . . . kidney disease . . . yet they will single out smokers.

Well ... I'm a nurse and I wouldn't say that diabetics, etc. cost much more and use many more resources. This isn't scientific by any means but, I would think smokers probably cost at least the same since smokers tend to make up a third to half of the patients in hospitals ... at least in my experience.

And actually not all diabetics use that much resources either, at least in the hospital. A lot of diabetics are complaint and do a good job of controlling their blood sugar. There are certainly some costs there but nothing compared to the non-compliant diabetics who refuse to control their blood sugar who cost a fortune with multiple hospital visits.

And not all patients in the hospital are obese either so ... it's a complicated issue. But I would put smoking in at least the top three reasons why people are hospitalized ... which is the most expensive part of healthcare. Just one night in the hospital can easily cost thousands of dollars.

[bibit612]

Originally Posted by sheri257

But I would put smoking in at least the top three reasons why people are hospitalized ... which is the most expensive part of healthcare. Just one night in the hospital can easily cost thousands of dollars.

Please provide the diagnosis code for smoking as I am unaware of one. Please provide the data where and if there was an ICD-9 code for smoking that it is the primary diagnosis code, the code that was used for admission. If there is no diagnosis code, please provide the DRG that was used to admit the smoker. I would be willing to bet with you that the diagnosis code for diabetes would be more than likely to appear as at least a secondary diagnosis if not primary in a claim record. The primary would be the more common comorbid conditions...(CAD, ASVD, etc. etc.)

[b75]

I'm a non-smoker but I will say this. If they are going to start monitoring health related activities, and given that heart disease due to people's dietary habits has now surpassed smoking related illnesses, could we please do something about that? I eat a whole foods diet, which can be very expensive but is very healthy. Maybe employers could give us an extra food allowance to enable us to eat healthier since, in the long run our better health would be more cost effective for the company in many ways? I'm just saying if the cost of the employee's health is the justification, why ignore the diet?

[SOON2BNSURPRISE]

Originally Posted by Dee74

Yeah, next it will be alcohol. It's legal too but could cause higher insurance rates for the company. Employers are already forcing employees to lose weigh/ reduce cholesterol or pay more or health care.
I'm a nurse and when drug testing was being fought in the courts I made my dad a bet the doors to the slippery slope had been opened and that drugs were only the first step. Too bad he did not live long enough to let me win just one bet with him.
Remember It's not your body anymore if you need a job, health insurance. They own you.

Are you saying that it is OK to drink at work? You also mentioned something about drug use. If it is found that an employee of the hospital where I work abuses drugs they lose their job. I have no idea why anyone would want a drugged out, or alcoholic healthcare worker performing there duty. We do have smoking areas but they are over 100 feet from any entrance to the hospital. Many of the people at the hospital where I work remember when you could smoke in the hospital. That is just amazing that they ever let that kind of activity go on. As far as being overweight, I prefer a healthy body anyday. I do think it is wrong to take away a persons right to do what they want. At the same time I think that there are some jobs that those activites should not be allowed. We are not allowed to wear lots of cologne or perfume at our hospital either because it could affect the patients. The same with smokers, they come in after smoking and all you can smell is the smoke on them. That also can have an affect on the patients. One of the guys I work with smokes cigars in the smoking area and that sent just about makes me pass out it is so bad. My thoughts are do what you want to do on your own time and leave it outside of work.

[SOON2BNSURPRISE]

Originally Posted by Castaway

Bravo, FreeSpirited1! On other threads, I have posted similar thoughts. I am a smoker and have missed only 6.5 days in 29 years of employment (the same company). If I was fired simply because I smoked (I smoke outside on a break) there would be a lawsuit.

In NM, the smoking ban has stats on how much work is lost b/c of smoking. All hogwash! Have they ever calculated time lost from idle chit chat, sick children, coffee drinking snackers, etc.? I'm sure that they would find there is much more time lost and they will ban all activities or you'll be fired.

I am a General Manager in a mom & pop's restaurant, I may lose my job regardless of whether or not I smoke, business is not the same. Everything I've worked for will be gone.

I was just wondering, do you smoke on your normal breaks? or do you have smoking breaks? I know where I work we are allowed two 15 minute breaks and a half hour lunch. That is unless you are a smoker. They can take a couple smoking breaks in addition to the regular breaks. Of course at those breaks they also smoke. Sure does smell good to those of us that don't smoke. Gag gag gag. So while we are working our tail sections off the smokers get a free ride, and no where I work there is no additional coffey breaks or bull sessions. In addition I never bring my sick children into work. Not sure what that has to do with work though. Unless you are saying that people that don't smoke have sick children to care for while those that do smoke don't cara about there sick children. Not sure if snacking at my desk would affect my work output since I can safely do it at my desk though.

[SOON2BNSURPRISE]

Originally Posted by bibit612

Please provide the diagnosis code for smoking as I am unaware of one. Please provide the data where and if there was an ICD-9 code for smoking that it is the primary diagnosis code, the code that was used for admission. If there is no diagnosis code, please provide the DRG that was used to admit the smoker. I would be willing to bet with you that the diagnosis code for diabetes would be more than likely to appear as at least a secondary diagnosis if not primary in a claim record. The primary would be the more common comorbid conditions...(CAD, ASVD, etc. etc.)

Please drop by the American Heart Associations web site and read a little on what smoking does to people. Here is a clip from there website;

AHA Scientific Position
Cigarette smoking is the most important preventable cause of premature death in the United States. It accounts for nearly 440,000 of the more than 2.4 million annual deaths. Cigarette smokers have a higher risk of developing several chronic disorders. These include fatty buildups in arteries, several types of cancer and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (lung problems). Atherosclerosis (buildup of fatty substances in the arteries) is a chief contributor to the high number of deaths from smoking. Many studies detail the evidence that cigarette smoking is a major cause of coronary heart disease, which leads to heart attack

There is additional information on there site at American Heart Association

I would hope that employers value there employees so much that they would do what they can to help extend their life.

[bibit612]

soon2besurprise - I don't need to read your citation, I know what smoking does. I do suggest you read the post I was responding to. I take exception to the post which attributed smoking as the cause for admission to the hospital. There are specific diagnoses that are required to be in claim forms when an admission happens. To say that one-third of the admissions is attributable to smoking is fallacious. I simply was asking previous poster to prove this statement...not whether smoking is healthy or unhealthy.

[SOON2BNSURPRISE]

I am not sure how many real admisions can be linked to smoking. I doubt that anyone can. My idea for posting is that although a patient is in for a cardiopulmonary complication and that is listed on the hospital paperwork, then do we determine what caused the action or do we just go with that? I guess if someone were to go into the hospital because there chest was crushed the admiting person would state the problem, crushed chest, not the reason for the crushed chest, blunt force impact during a car crash. So you are correct, chances are the reason for the problem wouldn't be listed, just the problem.

[nebulous1]

There was an article about this, in Ohio...employers screen you when you are hired. You could be a top candidate, but if you smoke, you're out. Some doctor who wrote a book on healthy lifestyles was hired by a big hospital there and he decided no smokers, and this goes beyond the workplace, they cannot smoke at home on their own time.
Now, it's all done in the face of health, but what employer really cares that much to spend all that money on labwork unless it saves them money!! So all this labwork must pay off to screen them.
Also, if you are randomly chosen anytime during your employment and given a test and show nicotine in your blood, you are fired. That's it. You could have been a top employee, but you're gone.
I interviewed with them and they said nicotine is an addictive drug. Well, it's not illegal. I told them I do not smoke, but they said it doesn't matter, they still test. Which means they don't believe you when you say you don't smoke...money matters more.
They save quite a bit on insurance premiums by not hiring smokers, and it won't be long before overweight people, coffee, alcohol, antidepressants, diabetics, will be denied employment. Just like older people are being shut out now....
No one is raising hell over older people not getting jobs...and they will sheepishly follow along with these other things too.
I am not a smoker.
But I will defend someone else's right to...in their own home, car, or on their property.
This is invasive, and I wish some would stop the rant about smoking being bad for you. That's what they WANT you to buy into! They WANT you to go along with their cost-savings plan. And when it is one of your vices or genetic predispositions, just wait. Because then YOUR head will be on the chopping block, and you will realize it had nothing to do with smoking being unhealthy!!!!!!!