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Right. And if I were considering opening a 500-job factory, I would definitely not do it in a country that has this sort of attitude. They'll be just sitting around all day, trying to think of ways to take my money and drive me out of business.
And they are operating this huge facility in high tax California no less.
I'm getting a little sick of this woe is me crap coming from the diaper wearing right. They whine about our crappy education system, while cutting school budgets, and then whine about the product which is a dependent class requiring government assistance.
I don't care how low you make the taxes, you're never going to operate a massive shirt making factory in this country profitably for the duration, due to trade agreements the repukes largely forced though about 20 years ago. The left is not the solution, but the right doesn't have a clue either. They are just as much for dividing the nation and pitting everyone against one another. Great, so the strategy is, let's all point the finger at each other as the ship goes down The voter is just as stupid, if not more so, than the idiots they elect.
I dont mind. In from a Great Lake city. Dont mind the snow.
The whole point about North Dakota is an example of sophistry at its finest. Its absolutely true that ND has an unemployment rate of a little more than 3 percent which is excellent. So, the rightwing argument goes just "ship everyone to ND, they should be able to find a job there". This is the kind of stuff you'd hear on Rush Limbaugh. I've come to expect this nonsense from the right whenever a real discussion comes up about this country's economic problems.
Here are the problems: The entire population of ND was 699,000 during the 2010 Census. There are more than ten million unemployed people in all of America. I don't think ND needs another 10 million people. In fact, I think if half a million people went to ND in search of work, the whole infrastructure of the state might collapse. I think I can say its a certainty that ND doesn't need half a million or ten million new workers in the fast food industry.
Its times like this, when I bet North Dakotans are grateful their state is as cold and inhospitable as it is in the winter.
The whole point about North Dakota is an example of sophistry at its finest. Its absolutely true that ND has an unemployment rate of a little more than 3 percent which is excellent. So, the rightwing argument goes just "ship everyone to ND, they should be able to find a job there". This is the kind of stuff you'd hear on Rush Limbaugh. I've come to expect this nonsense from the right whenever a real discussion comes up about this country's economic problems.
Here are the problems: The entire population of ND was 699,000 during the 2010 Census. There are more than ten million unemployed people in all of America. I don't think ND needs another 10 million people. In fact, I think if half a million people went to ND in search of work, the whole infrastructure of the state might collapse. I think I can say its a certainty that ND doesn't need half a million or ten million new workers in the fast food industry.
Its times like this, when I bet North Dakotans are grateful their state is as cold and inhospitable as it is in the winter.
I would sing outside in public for money before I move to North dakota for a job
I'm getting a little sick of this woe is me crap coming from the diaper wearing right. They whine about our crappy education system, while cutting school budgets, and then whine about the product which is a dependent class requiring government assistance.
I don't care how low you make the taxes, you're never going to operate a massive shirt making factory in this country profitably for the duration, due to trade agreements the repukes largely forced though about 20 years ago. The left is not the solution, but the right doesn't have a clue either. They are just as much for dividing the nation and pitting everyone against one another. Great, so the strategy is, let's all point the finger at each other as the ship goes down The voter is just as stupid, if not more so, than the idiots they elect.
Well, that's a mouthful of partisan jabs. The problem with a lot of these people who use expressions like "repukes" and "diaper wearing right" and "t-pots" and so forth is that they have no solutions; they merely polish and re-polish their insults directed against those who advocate a different path, as though insulting someone will induce them to change their mind. Well guess what--it didn't work.
I have presented facts and fact-backed hypotheses here and those who reflexively disagree are unable to refute the facts but merely resort to puerile name calling and haughty dismissive language which hide the fact that they are low-information ideologues with no cogent ideas of their own.
As for the Haas plant, that company was established in 1983 and I would imagine it's rather expensive to move, and furthermore it's largely robotic aside from the engineers. California has great engineers and great robotics companies, so it makes sense to be there. However undoubtedly there's a premium price to be paid for locating in Torrance, Calif., versus say Apache Junction, Ariz. or Memphis or North Carolina. Engineers tend not to be unionized, so probably there's not much labor trouble at this plant.
My point about North Dakota was misconstrued by one as "sophistry", as though it's a red herring and the fracking boom is a fluke that can be safely ignored. Yet, it's not a fluke at all; it's an amazing and encouraging development that is going to transform American industry--whether the liberals like it or not.
For one thing, very low cost, locally produced natural gas is a key ingredient for competitive plastics and chemicals industries and it is spurring investment in those industries. Because of cheap energy, the U.S. may well see a resurgence in plastics and chemicals that will in turn spur more domestic manufacturing across the board.
By the way, another side effect of cheap domestic energy is that the U.S. can stand down from its police duties in the Persian Gulf, saving potentially hundreds of billions of dollars in deployments and actual combat. The gasoline that we purchase at the pump comes at a huge cost in blood and treasure, and the fracking boom will help to bring this to an end. Now you can understand why Obama hasn't yet shut down the fracking despite the lobbying of the environmentalists. Even he realizes that it's beneficial. (Yes, I'm partisan!)
Now as to the employment ramifications of North Dakota, obviously 10 million people aren't going to go there and all be nicely employed, although I wouldn't be surprised if a couple million jobs are created in the region during the next five years. Someone said that people can't just pick up and move. I would argue, what other option is there? Is it better to sit around on unemployment insurance, or get it together to move to where the jobs are? The answers are self-evident.
Right now, the Obama Administration is trying to introduce guest worker visas for Mexicans. Why do you suppose that is? It's not because we have 15% real unemployment in the U.S. (the U-6 unemployment figure for people either unemployed, underemployed e.g. working 2 hours a week, or having given up looking). It's because that 15% won't stoop to do that kind of work, whereas the industrious Mexicans don't consider it stooping. They consider it work.
I think ND is as good an example as any. There's all sorts of side effects from this oil boom up there, including a housing boom, construction boom, trucking, food industry, etc. They're building refineries now, the first new refineries in the U.S. since the 1970s, to make diesel for local use. The boom is spilling over into South Dakota. Tens of thousands of people have migrated up there for work.
There are other pockets around the country of high employment and demand for more workers, but ND is just an obvious one. In fact there are whole industries that are begging for more workers but can't find them. For example, the trades. Electricians average age is about 50. Young people don't seem to want to put in the 4-5 years of training to become an electrician, and the need is being filled by foreigners, especially Brazilians. Ditto for carpentry and other such professions. For that matter, where are the high school kids who used to knock on doors and offer to mow your lawn or shovel your snow for $10 or $20? I would sure like someone to do that for me. In Massachusetts in winter, a hard worker could make a killing after a good snow storm. Where are the young eager beavers who would like to make some money?
Can you cite any source for the claim that apple pickers make sub minimum wage? I've researched this topic over the years and I'm pretty sure of my facts. See this article on apple growers, for example. They're saying a hard worker could earn $28/hour, but they can't find anyone.
And watch your food prices triple or quadruple. Problem solved, indeed. I'm not saying we should hire illegals and exploit them. I'm just saying, the jobs are out there, and we should go back to a free market for hiring people, which will in the long term create a market for low cost goods and services and then the lowest wages will be sufficient to survive, not well perhaps but at least subsistence.
Blaming business -- that's exactly what I'm talking about. It has nothing to do with the laziness of the contemporary American worker. It has nothing to do with the ridiculous red tape and regulatory mess that businesses have to contend with every day, which everyone who has ever tried to run a legitimate business is familiar with. It has nothing to do with excessive numbers of lawyers and excessive tendency to file lawsuits, which forces businesses to waste billions of dollars on defensive practices that cost jobs and productivity.
There's a lawyer in Florida who specializes in suing businesses for ADA non-compliance (Americans with Disabilities Act). You'd be amazed at the technicalities you can be sued over. If the aisles in your store are not a certain number of inches wide, you can be sued. The height of the door knob. Braille on the elevator buttons. Actually, almost anything can be turned against you. This expose' on TV showed how this guy hires disabled people in wheelchairs to roll into stores, grab a business card to prove they were there, then leave -- for $1000 pay. He then sues the business for ADA violations, basically just **** he makes up, and they settle out of court because it's too expensive to fight. He even sued a factory that was RUN BY A DISABLED MAN IN A WHEELCHAIR who gets around just fine, yet there was some obscure violation such as the number of millimeters width of the walkway. This is the tip of the iceberg my friend; $10,000 here, $5,000 there, it all adds up, and multiply it by a million and you have a runaway train.
Americans have developed a reputation around the world for lawsuits, which makes it harder to get jobs in other countries that may have a business presence in the U.S. It's more expensive and difficult for foreign businesses to set up shop in the U.S. because of the sky high liability issues and inevitable lawsuits that they are not accustomed to in their own countries.
And, of course, you have all the litigation surrounding employment. It's just much cheaper to hire workers somewhere else. If that's what "greed" is, I'm all for it. I'll take "greed" any old day, versus having to pay $5000 for an iPhone and similar gadgets!
Why should that be the employer's concern? Sure, you want healthy and happy employees, but why should businesses be required to provide health plans? It's all very well for huge corporations, but small businesses will go bankrupt under ObamaCare. They can't hire that 50th employee because suddenly they are required to provide all sorts of cushy benefits that they can't afford. Money doesn't grow on trees, and neither do jobs. Small businesses traditionally have been the job engine in this country. Let's just collectively take aim at our own foot and pull the trigger, shall we?
Walmart has offered a very inexpensive group plan for 30+ hours employees for quite a few years now. Regulatory pressures have driven up the costs of health care so this has caused them to cut back on eligibility--I don't blame them. Health care is ridiculously expensive but that's another discussion!
You can't pick and choose. You have to let the free market decide. That's the mistake that the Obama Administration has made over and over, picking certain companies to invest in, e.g. Solyndra and A123, without regard to the competitiveness of these companies not to mention the fairness of excluding their competitors from this largesse. The free market is brutal and final. The tough and clever survive, the weak and stupid don't. For the government to step in and prop up the weak and stupid is to do no one any favors. GM and the UAW were weak and stupid and should have gone through bankruptcy the old fashioned way, which would have enabled a lean new company to emerge, free of onerous labor contracts and political dependencies. Instead we got this UAW-run entity which really just exists to feed the pensions of the retirees.
Well you can view it that way if you wish. It's a free country, or at least it was until the NSA started recording all our conversations! I will stand by what I said. Anyone with a little gumption can still make it in this country, but the huge and overbearing government has made it a lot harder than it used to be (and it used to be pretty hard). The huge safety nets and social welfare programs which try to protect our every step from cradle to grave do us no favors but in fact remove much of our natural human incentives to grow and strive and achieve. Mediocrity should not be our goal; excellence should be what we all strive for. We simply can't get there under the current circumstances and something has to change.
ADA and discrimination laws do nothing to protect people with disabilities. These laws look good on paper but in the real world anything goes. A person can reveal their disability and there is nothing stopping the employer from not hiring them and it's not like people are going to try and sue most of the time. Sometimes you hear in the news about companies getting sued but that is the exception not the rule. More often then not most disabled people have nowhere to turn but stuff like SSI and SSDI, and then the public accuses them of scamming the system and not wanting to work. It's a vicious cycle.
The whole point about North Dakota is an example of sophistry at its finest. Its absolutely true that ND has an unemployment rate of a little more than 3 percent which is excellent. So, the rightwing argument goes just "ship everyone to ND, they should be able to find a job there". This is the kind of stuff you'd hear on Rush Limbaugh. I've come to expect this nonsense from the right whenever a real discussion comes up about this country's economic problems.
Here are the problems: The entire population of ND was 699,000 during the 2010 Census. There are more than ten million unemployed people in all of America. I don't think ND needs another 10 million people. In fact, I think if half a million people went to ND in search of work, the whole infrastructure of the state might collapse. I think I can say its a certainty that ND doesn't need half a million or ten million new workers in the fast food industry.
Its times like this, when I bet North Dakotans are grateful their state is as cold and inhospitable as it is in the winter.
I think it would not be as dire as you think. Who knows if there are a glut of jobs and the 3% are just waiting out the recruitment process and there are enough jobs or whatever. They could have more jobs and be able to support more people, maybe not. I don't think they would be able to hold a 10th of the 10 million and find jobs for them but half of a million more, perhaps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by parried
ADA and discrimination laws do nothing to protect people with disabilities. These laws look good on paper but in the real world anything goes. A person can reveal their disability and there is nothing stopping the employer from not hiring them and it's not like people are going to try and sue most of the time. Sometimes you hear in the news about companies getting sued but that is the exception not the rule. More often then not most disabled people have nowhere to turn but stuff like SSI and SSDI, and then the public accuses them of scamming the system and not wanting to work. It's a vicious cycle.
The issue is you can be removed from the process for another reason that may directly be linked to the disability. Take me for instance. My disability is not visible but audible. I had delayed speech and still have trouble pronouncing with r's, l's and w's even to an extent th's. So for many roles I am sure that has kept me out of contention, just because you would have a better candidate who didn't have this issue. Is it right, not exactly but there is always someone better than you in some X-Factor and sometimes for disabilities that is the reason you aren't right for the job.
Well, that's a mouthful of partisan jabs. The problem with a lot of these people who use expressions like "repukes" and "diaper wearing right" and "t-pots" and so forth is that they have no solutions; they merely polish and re-polish their insults directed against those who advocate a different path, as though insulting someone will induce them to change their mind. Well guess what--it didn't work.
I have presented facts and fact-backed hypotheses here and those who reflexively disagree are unable to refute the facts but merely resort to puerile name calling and haughty dismissive language which hide the fact that they are low-information ideologues with no cogent ideas of their own.
As for the Haas plant, that company was established in 1983 and I would imagine it's rather expensive to move, and furthermore it's largely robotic aside from the engineers. California has great engineers and great robotics companies, so it makes sense to be there. However undoubtedly there's a premium price to be paid for locating in Torrance, Calif., versus say Apache Junction, Ariz. or Memphis or North Carolina. Engineers tend not to be unionized, so probably there's not much labor trouble at this plant.
My point about North Dakota was misconstrued by one as "sophistry", as though it's a red herring and the fracking boom is a fluke that can be safely ignored. Yet, it's not a fluke at all; it's an amazing and encouraging development that is going to transform American industry--whether the liberals like it or not.
For one thing, very low cost, locally produced natural gas is a key ingredient for competitive plastics and chemicals industries and it is spurring investment in those industries. Because of cheap energy, the U.S. may well see a resurgence in plastics and chemicals that will in turn spur more domestic manufacturing across the board.
By the way, another side effect of cheap domestic energy is that the U.S. can stand down from its police duties in the Persian Gulf, saving potentially hundreds of billions of dollars in deployments and actual combat. The gasoline that we purchase at the pump comes at a huge cost in blood and treasure, and the fracking boom will help to bring this to an end. Now you can understand why Obama hasn't yet shut down the fracking despite the lobbying of the environmentalists. Even he realizes that it's beneficial. (Yes, I'm partisan!)
Now as to the employment ramifications of North Dakota, obviously 10 million people aren't going to go there and all be nicely employed, although I wouldn't be surprised if a couple million jobs are created in the region during the next five years. Someone said that people can't just pick up and move. I would argue, what other option is there? Is it better to sit around on unemployment insurance, or get it together to move to where the jobs are? The answers are self-evident.
Right now, the Obama Administration is trying to introduce guest worker visas for Mexicans. Why do you suppose that is? It's not because we have 15% real unemployment in the U.S. (the U-6 unemployment figure for people either unemployed, underemployed e.g. working 2 hours a week, or having given up looking). It's because that 15% won't stoop to do that kind of work, whereas the industrious Mexicans don't consider it stooping. They consider it work.
Unfortunately, I do not have the time available to solve the country's problems via internet like others do. Notice that I take shots at both the right and the left, so it's not fair to say my words are "partisan". No matter who you're rooting for, you're being led to the slaughter no less.
And what is an "industrious Mexican"? Most of these people come from rural settings, leaving the farms mostly because NAFTA has crippled their livelihood in Mexico. No way can they compete against America's industrial scale farming capabilities.
The problem with you guys is you don't want or don't understand that if you want a job u need to leave USA.
Staying in your country is finished. Now we are all unified. If you get a job in Asia, you must go. Africa or else.
I got jobs in Asia and I really like it. In fact I was making good money.
Now I going back again.
Usa will be desolated because you don't control your US government and you have no balls to take your country under control.
You are now indoctrinated with rules and laws. What companies do you think will come to USA to start a business.?
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The voter is just as stupid, if not more so, than the idiots they elect.
