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If its the same HR program we had I would use it to vent a bit but i think its important that everyone on your team has the same feedback. We usual have lunches with the CIO and vent about other supporting teams and their manager
I'm a CIO at a small company and if I became aware of a manager who performed in this way, he'd be a candidate for counseling. Suffice it to say, his actions aren't conducive to creating a positive, productive culture at the company.
I'd recommend having the talk with your lunch manager and keep it a "we" thing, not a "me" centered thing. If you can show that this manager's performance is hindering production and suppressing a positive culture, you may find that things will improve quickly. But if you feel you cannot have that conversation, you can always talk to Human Resources. Your problematic manager cannot retaliate against you because if that person does, you'll have a case against them.
Most companies wish to avoid legal issues and if your performance, work history and reputation is fairly spotless, you'll find that they'll side with your complaint. This all assumes, of course, that your company is not dysfunctional from the top on down. I have worked at such places before and when you have such an endemic problem like that, it's best to look elsewhere for employment.
I've worked for almost the same type of person you describe; everything is always "hair on fire" and long hours are expected. On vacation? Yeah, right.....They've got you by the Blackberry. I know the drill. You can take control of your direction and take steps to correct the issue; be it by having "the talk" or by seeking employment elsewhere.
I read it as a little different scenario in that it's a one on one meeting, not a group meeting.
I know. I meant that lunch with CIO level is undertandable a group event.
Other coworkers will get their lunch thing too so its important that theres something common with everyones feedback.. you dont need to coordinate of course
My company has a program where they assign a manager to you (different from your regular boss) and every few months you go out to lunch with this other manager to talk about how things are going with the company and any issues that you may have. They say that if you have any issues with your boss, you can use these lunches as an opportunity to discuss that with the other manager and he/she can try to help resolve them for you.
Recently I've been having issues with my boss. He is a slave driver who pushes us to work 14+ hour days and even weekends. (I am in the IT industry.) He lies and tells us about problems on Friday afternoons that MUST be fixed by Monday or else the project deadline will slip and upper management will be livid. (One time my co-workers didn't finish a task that my boss said MUST be done by Monday, and the project deadline didn't slip, so he was obviously lying.) He never communicates or gives any feedback. We just had a deadline this past week, and a couple other project managers emailed the whole team thanking us for our hard work to meet the deadline. My boss didn't say a thing - no thank you, no acknowledgment whatsoever. My boss takes us for granted and expects us to work long hours.
So I wonder if I should mention this stuff to the other manager assigned to go to lunch with me. He is actually a top VP and he always encourages me to discuss with him any issues I might have, including any issues with my boss. But I'm not sure if I should. I like this company besides my boss, but they consider both me and him to be vital to the particular project we are working on, so I don't think they would move either of us to a different project. Also I wonder if saying negative things about my boss would backfire on me somehow.
I'm already updating my resume and will start looking for a new job, so maybe there's no point in me mentioning any of this to the VP. Then again, if I don't say anything and then later tell the VP I have found a new job, he will ask why I never said anything to him. Seems like this might be one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't situations.
How many employees are there? What is the likelihood that your feedback would remain anonymous? Tread lightly regardless. Your feedback has a high likelihood of significantly affecting your stay at your current company. But if you think this conversation will improve your situation you might want to take the big risk. Only you can make that decision based on your impression of the VP.
My company has a program where they assign a manager to you (different from your regular boss) and every few months you go out to lunch with this other manager to talk about how things are going with the company and any issues that you may have. They say that if you have any issues with your boss, you can use these lunches as an opportunity to discuss that with the other manager and he/she can try to help resolve them for you.
Recently I've been having issues with my boss. He is a slave driver who pushes us to work 14+ hour days and even weekends. (I am in the IT industry.) He lies and tells us about problems on Friday afternoons that MUST be fixed by Monday or else the project deadline will slip and upper management will be livid. (One time my co-workers didn't finish a task that my boss said MUST be done by Monday, and the project deadline didn't slip, so he was obviously lying.) He never communicates or gives any feedback. We just had a deadline this past week, and a couple other project managers emailed the whole team thanking us for our hard work to meet the deadline. My boss didn't say a thing - no thank you, no acknowledgment whatsoever. My boss takes us for granted and expects us to work long hours.
So I wonder if I should mention this stuff to the other manager assigned to go to lunch with me. He is actually a top VP and he always encourages me to discuss with him any issues I might have, including any issues with my boss. But I'm not sure if I should. I like this company besides my boss, but they consider both me and him to be vital to the particular project we are working on, so I don't think they would move either of us to a different project. Also I wonder if saying negative things about my boss would backfire on me somehow.
I'm already updating my resume and will start looking for a new job, so maybe there's no point in me mentioning any of this to the VP. Then again, if I don't say anything and then later tell the VP I have found a new job, he will ask why I never said anything to him. Seems like this might be one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't situations.
I have seen such scenarios before first hand. Off the top of my head, this environment symptomatically dysfunctional for several reasons:
Managerial protocol isn't being followed
A VP regularly getting with non-direct reports who report to mid-management is highly unusual and not good organizational practice. Such an environment undermines the middle-manager's ability to properly manage resources. This approach never works in the long run, and is guaranteed to undermine both managerial and team morale. There is a good chance either the OP's boss is being phased out of the organization, or the VP is not an effective leader; either way it's a bad situation.
Project Management principles aren't being followed or communicated
As a project resource, the OP should be cognizant of the project's schedule and resourcing. If the boss/project manager isn't communicating the schedule & resourcing with the OP, the boss isn't effectively doing their job. The OP should ask for regular weekly updates.
A way to mitigate
The resource team doing the weekend work should ask for periodic meetings with the boss/project manager. The meeting request can presented as one where the team can receive feedback and discuss lessons learned of work completed, as well as where the team can obtain updates to what's next for upcoming project work. If the OP's boss isn't conducting these kinds of meetings, he is not effectively doing his job.
Recommendation
In this kind of scenario, I would recommend the OP to be very cautious about what they reveal to the VP. I do not see much positive results coming from such a disclosure. A wait and see approach may be best, as the OP's boss may already be in the midst of being pushed out the door.
Thanks for the replies everyone. I know that the VP has been with the company for about 20 years, and my boss has been with the company for about 10 years, so I think the company views them both as competent/good. I have been with the company for a couple of years now and both of my performance reviews were very good. In fact a previous manager for the project talked to me a couple weeks ago and said he heard that I was "kicking ass" on the project. I can only assume he heard that from my boss, but of course I had to hear it from another manager.
I think that asking for regular updates is a good idea. We used to have weekly status meetings, but my boss cancelled them because he thought we shouldn't waste time on meetings when he had so much work to do and a big deadline coming up.
Talking to my boss about the long hours I don't think is a good idea, when he himself frequently stays at the office until 2-3am. But I think that is one issue I can definitely mention to the VP. At one of our previous lunches, I told him things were starting to get busy but it wasn't too bad yet, and he told me if it got bad then I should let him know.
I was also wondering if I should ask the VP for another raise (he is actually the guy who decides people's salaries). I already received a raise in May, but with all the long hours I feel woefully underpaid. But based on what I heard from the manager who conducted my performance review (a different manager - not my boss and not the VP), I don't think another raise is going to happen, so I probably shouldn't bother asking.
If the company is legit in the purpose of this lunch (other employees ought to have some idea), I'd be inclined to use the opportunity but with extreme caution. I'd phrase everything as a question. Instead of saying, "My boss never gives me any feedback," I'd ask, "Is there some policy within the company on feedback? How much do you give your employees?" Once s/he answers those questions, my guess is s/he will ask you, "What kind of feedback do you get?" And you can answer, "None."
Instead of complaining, "I work 14+ hour days and even weekends," I'd ask, "How much overtime does the typical employee work?" You don't look like a bad guy because you're asking a question, not making an accusation. If your question is answered with another question, "How much overtime do you think is fair to work?" give an honest answer and try to include an example. "I worked X number of hours of overtime on the Y project because I could see that there was a legitimate reason that the project needed to be rushed. But does every project need to be rushed? Are our staffing levels typical for the industry?" It's likely that your questions will generate discussions that will give the VP a hint as to what you're dealing with and if you play your cards right you can demonstrate that you understand the big picture of how the company works.
Cast yourself as a person who wants the company to grow, not as a person who's a complainer.
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