Job placement - online degree vs a "traditional" degree (debt, 2013)
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In my opinion, the problem with UoP is not their coursework or the rigors of their program. It is that they will take anyone with a pulse and bleed them for ridiculously high tuition in order to line the pockets of their executives. That's why they are a laughingstock.
So is your problem the low barrier for entry or that they are a for profit company? Last I checked every business in the world that is not a government entity is for profit, otherwise they are a charity. If it is the low barrier, last I checked many colleges throughout the country do not take much more then a aptitude test to get admitted, at least university of Phoenix required a diploma or GED.
You're sitting there in class, and I'm 1500 miles away on a computer. I hear the professor, you hear the professor. You see what he's writing on the board, I see what he's writing on the board via the smartboard. I can ask a question by hitting a button, you can ask a question by raising your hand.
Are you seriously trying to say sitting in class online is the same thing as being there in person?
Do you not consider social and communication skills to be part of an education? Typing a question online is not the same thing as sitting in a classroom and being engaged with an instructor.
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Aside from personal preferences, how is being physically there different?
That's like saying talking to people on a message board is the same thing as talking to people in real life. They're not the same thing.
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And yes - not all online classes are taught in real time. But in a portal environment, the only thing you lose is the immediate conversations. The lectures are still there, you can ask questions via the forums, and I find it that more people tend to participate in the discussions than you would in a 1-2hour lecture session.
Immediate conversations are important. Good schools and professors require class participation as part of your grade. Learning to speak and think in real time is a very important part of a college education. The majority of strictly lecture style classes are generally only during your freshmen year of college.
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I think a lot of the negative perception to online is just that... a perception.
No. It comes from the glaring difference in the academics.
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Sure if this is a chemistry lab class or PE class where demonstrations are done...sure.
I'm just going to guess that you did not attend a brick and mortar university. It's not strictly lectures.
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But for your traditional lecture type classes..... no real difference as long as both the professor and the student put in the effort.
No there is a huge difference. Do you consider plays and movies to be the same thing? Do you consider talking to others online behind a screen the same thing as talking to them in real life?
People will defend online schooling all day. The truth is that the majority of the programs are garbage.
Are you seriously trying to say sitting in class online is the same thing as being there in person?
Do you not consider social and communication skills to be part of an education? Typing a question online is not the same thing as sitting in a classroom and being engaged with an instructor.
That's like saying talking to people on a message board is the same thing as talking to people in real life. They're not the same thing.
Immediate conversations are important. Good schools and professors require class participation as part of your grade. Learning to speak and think in real time is a very important part of a college education. The majority of strictly lecture style classes are generally only during your freshmen year of college.
No. It comes from the glaring difference in the academics.
I'm just going to guess that you did not attend a brick and mortar university. It's not strictly lectures.
No there is a huge difference. Do you consider plays and movies to be the same thing? Do you consider talking to others online behind a screen the same thing as talking to them in real life?
People will defend online schooling all day. The truth is that the majority of the programs are garbage.
spoken as someone who has obviously never taken an online course, or an professor at an brick and mortar school.
Quality of online courses like brick and mortar depend heavily on the instructor, but let me let you in on a little secret, the workload for most online course I took were close to double what I had to deal with in classroom taught subjects while at a well known and respected state college. Also the professors asking an occasional question is much easier then having to post well thought out posts to several in depth questions and responding/defending your position to other students posts. it is much easier to disappear in a room full of 50-100 students then it is when your every post is counted and followed by technology. Fact is many of the other student I know myself included, purposely took classes on campus on many of the tougher subjects so the workload was not so bad.
Think about it this way, we are all posting on City data, imagine having to answer each of the 1st 6 posts on this page, with thought out responses, verifiable links to research you conducted on each of your answers, and then post twice more in each thread to defend your position. That was just the classroom interaction part of many classes, Then you had comparable if not more papers due in each class, the math problems were often doubled from a classroom class, quizzes were still given weekly, with major test 4-6 times a semester online (about half that in the classroom). Still think that is garbage?
spoken as someone who has obviously never taken an online course, or an professor at an brick and mortar school.
Quality of online courses like brick and mortar depend heavily on the instructor, but let me let you in on a little secret, the workload for most online course I took were close to double what I had to deal with in classroom taught subjects while at a well known and respected state college. Also the professors asking an occasional question is much easier then having to post well thought out posts to several in depth questions and responding/defending your position to other students posts. it is much easier to disappear in a room full of 50-100 students then it is when your every post is counted and followed by technology. Fact is many of the other student I know myself included, purposely took classes on campus on many of the tougher subjects so the workload was not so bad.
Think about it this way, we are all posting on City data, imagine having to answer each of the 1st 6 posts on this page, with thought out responses, verifiable links to research you conducted on each of your answers, and then post twice more in each thread to defend your position. That was just the classroom interaction part of many classes, Then you had comparable if not more papers due in each class, the math problems were often doubled from a classroom class, quizzes were still given weekly, with major test 4-6 times a semester online (about half that in the classroom). Still think that is garbage?
I've taken an online course before. It was easy compared to upper level courses that required attendance.
A professor asking a question requires you to be engaged and paying attention. It's not the same thing as having all the time in the world to type a response to a question.
Are you really going to tell me that online courses are comparable to sitting in a class lecture and learning from someone who has a PHD from a top research univerisity?
I've taken an online course before. It was easy compared to upper level courses that required attendance.
A professor asking a question requires you to be engaged and paying attention. It's not the same thing as having all the time in the world to type a response to a question.
Are you really going to tell me that online courses are comparable to sitting in a class lecture and learning from someone who has a PHD from a top research univerisity?
You act as if everybody in the classroom is asked several questions every week, when did classes become 8 hours long? Realistically the professor will ask at most a dozen questions in a hour long class and that is with limited to no participation from the rest of the group, meaning in a class room full of 50 students, 38 of them can be daydreaming about their boyfriend/girlfriend or what they are going to do next weekend, and nobody knows a damn thing about it. Fact is I have easily breezed through classes like Psychology, many of my accounting classes, Finance, history, and math classes barely awake. you see I am a test taker and I sit in the back of class, add that to doing my homework and it was not hard to end up with a 4.0 in my classes where I sat in a class room. My favorite class was actually a sociology professor that had a graduated from Brown and then Harvard, she loved to hear herself talk. I may be the only Accounting major you ever met that took 12 credit hours of Sociology half of which were electives.
considering as many of the professors I had online had a PHD from a top research university as what I had in the classroom, I would say yes you learn as much or more online as you do sitting in the classroom, and if you have taken an online course before then maybe you had a bad professor or were going to a bad school.
Fact is I have easily breezed through classes like Psychology, many of my accounting classes, Finance, history, and math classes barely awake.
It's obvious you didn't attend many top level courses. So you breezed through some easy junior class courses. That's great. It's not comparable to upper level or graduate level courses. If you can seriously tell me that you can breeze through upper level finance, math or econ by barely paying attention then why are you not going into a top PHD program?
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you see I am a test taker and I sit in the back of class, add that to doing my homework and it was not hard to end up with a 4.0 in my classes where I sat in a class room.
Jeez man, a 4.0 without trying. Why are you not at a top academic university and getting into major companies and on the path to high salaries? A 4.0 will easily get you into Harvard B school.
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considering as many of the professors I had online had a PHD from a top research university as what I had in the classroom, I would say yes you learn as much or more online as you do sitting in the classroom, and if you have taken an online course before then maybe you had a bad professor or were going to a bad school.
It's obvious you didn't attend many top level courses. So you breezed through some easy junior class courses. That's great. It's not comparable to upper level or graduate level courses. If you can seriously tell me that you can breeze through upper level finance, math or econ by barely paying attention then why are you not going into a top PHD program?
Oh yes they were all so hard for me, I never could have taken a hard class, since you obviously struggled. Let me put it this way, I had the highest ASVAB score any military recruiter had ever seen when I was in high school, and had a career in the military mapped out prior to blowing out my knee 1 month prior to going to boot camp. I was also that guy in high school that only showed up in class to take my tests, did not do homework, and did not care, yet I still graduated with no problem. I just do not see the value of listening to blowhards who have read a bunch of theories, and have no real world knowledge of how business or life works.
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Originally Posted by Pyramidsurf
Jeez man, a 4.0 without trying. Why are you not at a top academic university and getting into major companies and on the path to high salaries? A 4.0 will easily get you into Harvard B school.
Funny my mother asks the same damn question, which is why I even went to school in my late 20s early 30s, then I realized I was right it was a waste of time for me. Why go to a top academic university for 10 years? I have no interest in spending the rest of my life working for someone else especially some corporation where everybody above you thinks you should kiss their ass, and everybody below you on the totem poll kisses your ass, or sitting around a university acting as if I am important. Right now I have someone with a masters degree from Wharton working for me, in fact he is at the office right now while I am waiting for my teenage daughter to wake up before we go to the lake for the rest of the day. I have another guy who graduated 10 years ago with a masters in finance on my payroll as well, he took 1 of his 2 weeks of vacation this week, I took the week off because I wanted to and will probably take part of next week off to spend time with my kids before they go back to school, of course that is after the 2 week vacation I took in July. I would not trade either of their careers for mine right now or ever. By the time most kids graduate with a bachelors degree, I owned my 1st business, and made more per year than most graduates from top schools make in their 1st 3 years after school.
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Originally Posted by Pyramidsurf
Well I guess we see things differently.
I guess so, you see I do not really care all that much about listening to people who have never done a job, or that sat in classrooms for a decade so they can be experts in a field they have never worked in with their entire knowledge based on others knowledge, based on others knowledge, all based on educated guesses. You see I prefer to enjoy life, not worry about someone's credentials, and I could care less what some dumbass at Harvard thinks he knows about how to operate my business. Any knowledge I need to pick up can be done in a couple of weeks by visiting a library, going and talking to people who actually are in the line of work, and spending time reading the internet. I enjoy what I do as I work with small business people to ensure all their financial paperwork is correct and to help them build their companies. Not having a degree from some school has made no difference in my career.
Oh yes they were all so hard for me, I never could have taken a hard class, since you obviously struggled. Let me put it this way, I had the highest ASVAB score any military recruiter had ever seen when I was in high school, and had a career in the military mapped out prior to blowing out my knee 1 month prior to going to boot camp.
No way! The ASVAB. Not sure if you know this but that test is for enlisting. There are much harder tests to enter the military as an Officer.
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I was also that guy in high school that only showed up in class to take my tests, did not do homework, and did not care, yet I still graduated with no problem. I just do not see the value of listening to blowhards who have read a bunch of theories, and have no real world knowledge of how business or life works.
Right. HS. Highschool isn't hard for most people. You don't see the value in listening to a "bunch of blowhards..." yet you pay them money to hear them online.
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Funny my mother asks the same damn question, which is why I even went to school in my late 20s early 30s, then I realized I was right it was a waste of time for me. Why go to a top academic university for 10 years? I have no interest in spending the rest of my life working for someone else especially some corporation where everybody above you thinks you should kiss their ass, and everybody below you on the totem poll kisses your ass, or sitting around a university acting as if I am important.
I can see this conversation is a complete waste of time. You're the typical "no one understands the corporate world like I do" type.
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Right now I have someone with a masters degree from Wharton working for me, in fact he is at the office right now while I am waiting for my teenage daughter to wake up before we go to the lake for the rest of the day. I have another guy who graduated 10 years ago with a masters in finance on my payroll as well, he took 1 of his 2 weeks of vacation this week, I took the week off because I wanted to and will probably take part of next week off to spend time with my kids before they go back to school, of course that is after the 2 week vacation I took in July. I would not trade either of their careers for mine right now or ever. By the time most kids graduate with a bachelors degree, I owned my 1st business, and made more per year than most graduates from top schools make in their 1st 3 years after school.
And here we go. The anonymous business owner on the internet who has the smart guys working for him. I saw this coming.
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I guess so, you see I do not really care all that much about listening to people who have never done a job, or that sat in classrooms for a decade so they can be experts in a field they have never worked in with their entire knowledge based on others knowledge, based on others knowledge, all based on educated guesses. You see I prefer to enjoy life, not worry about someone's credentials, and I could care less what some dumbass at Harvard thinks he knows about how to operate my business. Any knowledge I need to pick up can be done in a couple of weeks by visiting a library, going and talking to people who actually are in the line of work, and spending time reading the internet. I enjoy what I do as I work with small business people to ensure all their financial paperwork is correct and to help them build their companies. Not having a degree from some school has made no difference in my career.
And yet you go to school online. If you don't care to hear them then why attend school?
I don't have the patience for all of this nonsense. I'll just say that the people who are working and attending classes online have more real world experience with communicating in the workplace than someone sitting in a classroom who has never had a real job. I can't believe someone tried to compare being a doctor to being a financial advisor. There are no accredited, online, medical schools because medicine requires hands on training. However, Stanford University is thinking about putting all of their lecture courses online because most of their medical students don't attend the lectures anyway. I understand that engineering can also be very hands on, but it hasn't stopped Columbia University from offering online degrees in the field. I bet that someone with an online degree from Columbia University will look more impressive than someone with a ground degree from No-Name Podunk University.
I'll just say that the people who are working and attending classes online have more real world experience with communicating in the workplace than someone sitting in a classroom who has never had a real job.
You act as if people in universities don't have to work or do internships.
I'd much rather hire a University student with internships at prestigious companies than an online student.
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