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Old 08-23-2013, 01:58 PM
 
421 posts, read 878,733 times
Reputation: 137

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sll3454 View Post
A. You don't know this, yet you believe yourself to be an elite babysitter? I'll give you just one way: a camp counselor's main job is to engage the campers (the thing you are good at). However, that is not what parents are looking for in a babysitter for their 8-12 year olds. (There goes your main qualification.)

B. A grown man with any sense at all DOES NOT contact a 12-year-old girl without her parents' knowledge and permission, and it has nothing to do with what phone plan she has.

A) OK, so what's the top 3 qualifications for a sitter then?

If someone can fulfill those qualifications AND engage the kids, then they would be above average, like I view myself.


B) I've done it before lots of times with other campers and nothing bad happened.





Quote:
Originally Posted by sll3454 View Post
Notice, OP, that parents, don't trust grown men around their children. Dads feel strongly about this one, too. In fact, Dads may feel more strongly about this than moms. You think they might know something?
We don't know that though.

We only know that parents who are posters here tend to feel that way, which makes sense because if you are drawn to a parenting internet forum, you likely are at least super involved in your parenting skills.

I imagine that someone who works 80 hours a week don't look at the situation as deeply.

The Dads also are looking at the situation wrong because in your post they likely say, "I used to try to take advantage of women I was younger...this guy must too!" The problem is that there's nothing saying that the Dad and I have anything in common, outside of being male. It's just a low effort thought that probably allows him to ignore his numerous deficiencies in being a father.

 
Old 08-23-2013, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Tennessee at last!
1,884 posts, read 3,021,807 times
Reputation: 3861
I have had lots of nannies, which are a level above babysitters, and generally paid more for their services. So I am offering some thoughts on this thread.

1. A child may think that the babysitter/nanny only works for 20 hours, but likely the person is watching the kids for 20 hours during the school year and doing lots of other things that the child does not value or know about when the child is in school. My nannies all cooked meal, cleaned up, did the children's laundry--wash, stain removal, dry, fold, iron, hang, put in rooms--they cleaned the children's bathroom, everything in the bathroom, they vacuumed all the areas of the house that the children frequented. The went grocery shopping. They planned activities for the children--art, etc. MY nannies worked up to 45 hours a week, were live in and received about $350 a week (part of the salary is off set by the room and board). And there are additional 'costs' for having a nanny, if its being done legally, which may be called 'costs' in front of a child, but are not salary that the nanny gets e.g. social security, unemployment, disability, workman comp, etc. that must be paid. For $50 an hour, I would want the nanny to have experience with the royal family or at least formal nanny training.

2. I have had both male and female nannies. Same expectations for both.

3. If a nanny had a degree in nutrition and proposed eating out for my children's meals, would only choose healthy choices, and would track the nutrition to ensure the food was not high in fat, calories, nutritionally balanced, etc. I still would not want my kids eating out all the time. I want my children to eat food cooked in my home--that is a life style choice. And I would want that value system even more for children at a preadolescent age. I do no want my children to think that eating out each meal is normal. And yes, as a family we do go out a few times a week.

4. My kids just got back from music camp. Wow the fun, new goofy names, staying up and talking at night, pillow fights. Great Summer fun FOR CAMP. Now, if my nanny, AT HOME, did not enforce a bedtime, or allowed a pillow fight, he/she would not be employed. My expectations for a great camp counselor is to set up fun, fun, fun, and more fun, and to bring the kids back uninjured and alive. My expectations for a babysitter or nanny is to assist me in nurturing a child to be a responsible, sensitive, honest, hard working, etc. member of society. Very different jobs, and qualifications.

5. My kids came home with e-mail addresses for all counselors and kids at camp whose parent's chose to release the contact information. Contact with counselors is to be kid initiated. And the contact list was handed directly to the PARENTS, not the kids. My kids are 10 and 11, and I would not be happy with a counselor contacting them rather than asking the camp director for my contact information.

6. My nannies watch what ever kids I say, and if I invite other kids over to play, she/he watches them too for the same price. And that is discussed at the time interviews for hiring are done. The last nanny I had for 2 years and she brought he grandson to my house, and my kids went to her grandson's house on occasion. Frequency, etc. for other kid visits is discussed before hiring. I would NEVER let a nanny bring other kids into MY home for additional $ to the nanny. I do not want the liability of running a daycare at my house, or the financial responsibility of a child being injured, nor of the destruction that is possible to my home with a 'batch' of unknown to me kids being watched in my home.

7. Would I hire Pinky? NOT ON YOUR LIFE! He seems (1) unteachable - I would expect an argument every time I said what my expectation were as here he asks for assistance then refutes all the answers he gets--no one has agreed with his rate, or different rates for children from different homes, yet he continues to pursue that, (2) maturity/ professionalism seem lacking--I'd expect to come home and have my kids smacking gum and sticking it under the dining room table during a Taco Bell dinner with him in charge, (3) price is WAYYYYYYYYYY off, (4) I want my kids watched in my house, and I do not want my house to be a daycare for other kids he is watching for additional $.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 03:02 PM
 
Location: NJ
17,574 posts, read 46,060,080 times
Reputation: 16273
Very nice post. Unfortunately I think it was a waste of time on your part.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 03:26 PM
 
421 posts, read 878,733 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by lae60 View Post
I have had lots of nannies, which are a level above babysitters, and generally paid more for their services. So I am offering some thoughts on this thread.

1. A child may think that the babysitter/nanny only works for 20 hours, but likely the person is watching the kids for 20 hours during the school year and doing lots of other things that the child does not value or know about when the child is in school. My nannies all cooked meal, cleaned up, did the children's laundry--wash, stain removal, dry, fold, iron, hang, put in rooms--they cleaned the children's bathroom, everything in the bathroom, they vacuumed all the areas of the house that the children frequented. The went grocery shopping. They planned activities for the children--art, etc. MY nannies worked up to 45 hours a week, were live in and received about $350 a week (part of the salary is off set by the room and board). And there are additional 'costs' for having a nanny, if its being done legally, which may be called 'costs' in front of a child, but are not salary that the nanny gets e.g. social security, unemployment, disability, workman comp, etc. that must be paid. For $50 an hour, I would want the nanny to have experience with the royal family or at least formal nanny training.

2. I have had both male and female nannies. Same expectations for both.

3. If a nanny had a degree in nutrition and proposed eating out for my children's meals, would only choose healthy choices, and would track the nutrition to ensure the food was not high in fat, calories, nutritionally balanced, etc. I still would not want my kids eating out all the time. I want my children to eat food cooked in my home--that is a life style choice. And I would want that value system even more for children at a preadolescent age. I do no want my children to think that eating out each meal is normal. And yes, as a family we do go out a few times a week.

4. My kids just got back from music camp. Wow the fun, new goofy names, staying up and talking at night, pillow fights. Great Summer fun FOR CAMP. Now, if my nanny, AT HOME, did not enforce a bedtime, or allowed a pillow fight, he/she would not be employed. My expectations for a great camp counselor is to set up fun, fun, fun, and more fun, and to bring the kids back uninjured and alive. My expectations for a babysitter or nanny is to assist me in nurturing a child to be a responsible, sensitive, honest, hard working, etc. member of society. Very different jobs, and qualifications.

5. My kids came home with e-mail addresses for all counselors and kids at camp whose parent's chose to release the contact information. Contact with counselors is to be kid initiated. And the contact list was handed directly to the PARENTS, not the kids. My kids are 10 and 11, and I would not be happy with a counselor contacting them rather than asking the camp director for my contact information.

6. My nannies watch what ever kids I say, and if I invite other kids over to play, she/he watches them too for the same price. And that is discussed at the time interviews for hiring are done. The last nanny I had for 2 years and she brought he grandson to my house, and my kids went to her grandson's house on occasion. Frequency, etc. for other kid visits is discussed before hiring. I would NEVER let a nanny bring other kids into MY home for additional $ to the nanny. I do not want the liability of running a daycare at my house, or the financial responsibility of a child being injured, nor of the destruction that is possible to my home with a 'batch' of unknown to me kids being watched in my home.

7. Would I hire Pinky? NOT ON YOUR LIFE! He seems (1) unteachable - I would expect an argument every time I said what my expectation were as here he asks for assistance then refutes all the answers he gets--no one has agreed with his rate, or different rates for children from different homes, yet he continues to pursue that, (2) maturity/ professionalism seem lacking--I'd expect to come home and have my kids smacking gum and sticking it under the dining room table during a Taco Bell dinner with him in charge, (3) price is WAYYYYYYYYYY off, (4) I want my kids watched in my house, and I do not want my house to be a daycare for other kids he is watching for additional $.

Pre-1) The child specifically mentioned the person as her "babysitter." Considering she is 12 years old and assuming the same person worked for her the whole time, you would be inclined to believe it is a sitter. It would be hard to make the same mistake for 4-5 years.


1) The sitter watches the girl during nights. I doubt the sitter would work a secret day shift before the kid gets home from school and then come back at night, so it seems unlikely that this sitter could do all of these other tasks without the girl's knowledge.


3) So for your family, you could hire me for the few times per week where the children are allowed to eat out. You don't need a degree in nutrition to know which foods are healthy and which ones aren't.

I'm looking to construct anywhere from 20-60 hour workweek of families. All of those hours do not have to come from the same family. Assuming "a few" means 3 days per week and assuming at least a 4 hour shift per night, that means 12 of my 60 hours could come from your family.


4) "a responsible, sensitive, honest, hard working, etc. member of society."

If a sitter did all of that, but allowed a pillow fight, you would fire them?

What harm is there in a pillow fight?


5) My camp doesn't bother with all of that, but just gives us a general precautionary message to "be careful if you choose to contact them." With that said, every kid I gave my e-mail and cell to was extremely excited to get it. If someone just muttered "OK" and put it in their bag, I wouldn't view that as someone to ever talk to.

I don't think it's too important who initiates the desire to stay in contact, because an 8 or 9-year old might not think to ask for it. That doesn't mean they don't want it though. With that said, once we exchange contact info, the kids do initiate contact a majority of the time.

Are you hung up on process here? If a counselor asks for your child's contact information, would you give it to them and allow regular conversation?


6) I would never bring in random kids to another person's house either.

The topic discussed at the beginning of the thread are a few kids who are all friends and who naturally want to hang out, so one of the houses will be used for all of them. These are kids who would come over ANYWAY, but with me being their sitter, allows the parents to either work on a faculty conference day or schedule weekend plans for themselves.


7A) I do advocate for my campers and would do the same for my children, but would not do so right away. I usually like to have my actual work appraised first before I try to budge the needle. Upon just starting out, I'd probably do whatever I was told, provided it did not violate one of my principles.

7B) This isn't true. Not sure if you followed the whole topic, but I was requested by another group having problems controlling their campers and by the end of the summer, our group was the best behaved of all the groups. My approach is to try to mirror everything about the age I am participating with, but there are lots of adult principles that I expect the kids to try and possess as well. Of course they are not successful, but I expect an honest effort to be made.

If you came home after 800 PM, dinner would have been completed long ago. If you came home between 800-1000 PM and the child had no other pressing interests he wanted me to engage in, we might just be talking naturally about whatever the child wants to talk about. Probably something school related or involving their friends. I stress overall excellent performance in school, athletics, and friends with my campers and that would not change in a sitting capacity.

If you came home after 1000 PM, the child might already be asleep, since interacting with me is a high-energy effort and I can keep up with even the most hyper kids.

7C) You might change your tune after you've had me for a couple times. I am thinking about having an "introductory rate" of $20 per hour for the 1st two sessions, since it seems from this topic that there is a huge disconnect between what the average adult thinks of me and the real skill I possess.

I could make up for that, by also introducing a high-end rate of $40 per hour for clients whom I have already logged 100 hours of service for.

7D) The thing with multiple kids is not the norm and, worst-case scenario, your friends can invite your kids into their home. The topic of you not reciprocating can be something the other moms argue with you about. I do not need to be involved there.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 03:29 PM
 
421 posts, read 878,733 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
No, if I paid you, you would be taking advantage of me at the price you are asking.

why would a 12 year old know how much her babysitter gets paid?I looked at craigslist just for kicks, and saw sitters asking $10-12/hour. Since don't believe any of us, go ahead and see if you can get any clients at that price. I dare you. Just don't be surprised if you get laughed at.

No, that's not true. No one is forcing you to pay any rate. I'm not taking advantage of you for ASKING for a specific rate.

Maybe she was curious and asked. My campers asked me how much I was paid and I told them. It's not unreasonable that the same thing happened with the sitter. According to some of the online formulas, my average rate should be $21 per hour, so a $9 bump in rate for my outstanding engaging skills does not seem too far off.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 03:30 PM
 
421 posts, read 878,733 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
P.s. I was only assuming you are a teen because that's the mentality that comes across in your posts.


What aspects of my posts portray a teen mentality?

Also, I don't try to hold myself hostage to being identified with any one particular group.

For example, I find many adults to be elitist and hypocritical, so my goal is not to strive to be like the average adult. They're too flawed to be a role model.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 03:34 PM
 
421 posts, read 878,733 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerseygal4u View Post
No offense was meant on my part,but many parents don't trust grown men around their daughters.
It isn't your fault,neither mine. All the stories we hear and read,and its hard to not trust someone.

What does that mean your are not the average male?


Also,I'm just saying this because of course,like it or not,it will factor in some parents not wanting you as a babysitter. Which for you would mean reduced pay.

Its like that at my job. Lots of parents don't want male nurses.

If someone told me that, then I would quickly respond with, "So I guess you shouldn't trust your husband with your children either."

If it's a simple male issue, then exceptions cannot be made for family.

The stories represent a super small segment of the population and are fueled by existant double standards. I've seen stories reported on where a woman takes advantage of a boy and most of the comments read, "Why doesn't this boy shut his mouth. He should be glad to be so lucky!"


I'm not sure it means "reduced pay" as much as a "reduced workload." That's why I'm more interested in expanding through current clients' friends as they would be most comfortable with taking on a male sitter. The ones who are still OK with having a male sitter wouldn't adjust their expectations at all.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 03:36 PM
 
421 posts, read 878,733 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
This thread has officially gone creepy. He has the kid's cell phone number?


I gave my e-mail and cell to the kid to give to the parents. (If something springs up last minute, I suspect the parent won't have time to send an e-mail, but could call me.)

Most of the other kids only had an e-mail, so that's all I asked for from then, since I didn't exactly trust the 8-year old to remember.

But after I took the 12-year old's e-mail, she said, "Aren't you going to ask for my cell too?!?"

And then I just said something like, "Oh, I didn't know you had a cell. Do you want to give that to me also?"

So yeah, I have it.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 03:37 PM
 
421 posts, read 878,733 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by beera View Post
Camp counselors are all about activities, and being a counselor you are given everything you need to do your job, such as supplies, snacks, etc. Sitters have to keep the kids normal routine going. You aren't going to "sit" for a kid and have them play games the whole time, you have to make sure they do what the parents want done, hw, bath, dinner, etc. Depending on how late you will be there. It's not about what you think is appropriate, but what they think is appropriate.

If you don't want to ask parents then I agree to go on craigslist or care.com or something to see the going rates.


If a big routine is planned by the parents, I can use that compressed schedule as an incentive for the kids to do the whole routine and can spend an hour playing a game or whatever they want as their reward. They love spending time with me so much that it works as a motivating factor without ever having to punish them.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 04:09 PM
 
Location: here
24,873 posts, read 36,099,791 times
Reputation: 32726
Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingo_pink View Post
No, that's not true. No one is forcing you to pay any rate. I'm not taking advantage of you for ASKING for a specific rate.

Maybe she was curious and asked. My campers asked me how much I was paid and I told them. It's not unreasonable that the same thing happened with the sitter. According to some of the online formulas, my average rate should be $21 per hour, so a $9 bump in rate for my outstanding engaging skills does not seem too far off.
You implied that finding good child care was not my priority.

Maybe she misunderstood don't you understand that you are taking the word on one single child over what all of these people here are telling you?

what forums have told you you deserve $20/hr and in what universe is a 33% bump realistlic?
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