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I have been laid off three 6 figure jobs and I am currently working for $9/hr.
I know what I can live off of, but due to extended unemployment, I am willing to take what I can get and work multiple jobs if I have to. However, the going rate for where I'm looking (a drastic step down from my qualifications, but its a paycheck) vary based on experience.
I don't want to pull the "I believe in letting my work speak for itself and trust that your company would provide a fair pay rate....blah, blah, blah" nonsense, because they will lowball you in that case.
What's the best answer here?
In the days of the higher salaries, I would do research and pull the salary averages out, but this is for clerical work. That can vary greatly...
UGH.... I'm jus sooooo over this
Our business died when I was 60. Had paid us well for many years, but we saw the end coming, so it didn't take our money with it. But, still, I needed to work for 5 more years.
I always wanted to drive an 18 wheeler. So, I sent myself off to CDL school and landed a good trucking job where I was home once a week and every week end.
There was no talking about salary. I got paid the same as everyone else. And somehow I found that refreshing.
I'd give a range, but make sure you can live with it if they make you an offer on the lower end. So be realistic but not greedy (especially in this economy).
Why do people insist on doing this?
Giving a range may make you feel better if you are insecure with your opening offer, but it is a terrible negotiating tactic.
If you give a range, the ONLY number that matters is the low end. I don't care if you say 30-35k, or $30k-$300 million. The only number that matters to me as a salary negotiator is $30k.
If I need to play hardball, I hear $30k and respond with "oh, I am so terribly sorry, but the maximum I can offer for this job is $27k. I know that this is a bit below your number, but could you accept it?
Before you give a range, take a deep breath. You obviously know something about the job or you would be unable to even determine a range. Take a number near the high end of the range and give that out. Rather than 30-35, just throw out $34 and see what happens.
Idk, for the job I just got hired for I said the whole "blah blah I care more about experience blah blah fair blahblah" and they offered me a salary range on the high end of the scale - I was surprised because I thought they'd lowball me.
Edit: I didn't negotiate because I'm entry level and didn't want to push my luck. So, this situation may be irrelevant compared to yours.
I would not have negotiated in your position. You impressed them enough that they moved from the bottom of the scale because they want you. It's a great sign that they value your potential and they are likely to be a great place to work that values employees.
Interesting responses. After so many lay offs, I am a little gun shy now. I NEED money (as evidenced by my current underemployment), and I just need a job, so though I'm willing to take what I can get, it would be nice to at least get back to the 50's.
If I had known this would be the outcome, I would have saved my money on my two degrees that are proving to not be worth the paper they were printed on...
Giving a range may make you feel better if you are insecure with your opening offer, but it is a terrible negotiating tactic.
If you give a range, the ONLY number that matters is the low end. I don't care if you say 30-35k, or $30k-$300 million. The only number that matters to me as a salary negotiator is $30k.
If I need to play hardball, I hear $30k and respond with "oh, I am so terribly sorry, but the maximum I can offer for this job is $27k. I know that this is a bit below your number, but could you accept it?
Before you give a range, take a deep breath. You obviously know something about the job or you would be unable to even determine a range. Take a number near the high end of the range and give that out. Rather than 30-35, just throw out $34 and see what happens.
I think you may not be acknowledging that many positions will only budget "X" for compensation, except for niche skills, senior management, or other highly in demand candidates. In many cases, there is no room to negotiate - you either take the offer or walk away.
I'll agree that the bottom end is the only meaningful thing for the employer looking to get the candidate at the lowest possible price. If I say $30k is the floor at which I walk away, you offer $27k, and I do walk away, you as the employer probably have lots more candidates who will take just as low. Meanwhile, I as a candidate probably don't have the luxury of multiple offers.
Employers also have knowledge of what they will pay, meanwhile discussions of compensation are discouraged from the candidate. Pay expectations asymmetries end up wasting both employer and candidate time in many cases
I think you may not be acknowledging that many positions will only budget "X" for compensation, except for niche skills, senior management, or other highly in demand candidates. In many cases, there is no room to negotiate - you either take the offer or walk away.
I'll agree that the bottom end is the only meaningful thing for the employer looking to get the candidate at the lowest possible price. If I say $30k is the floor at which I walk away, you offer $27k, and I do walk away, you as the employer probably have lots more candidates who will take just as low. Meanwhile, I as a candidate probably don't have the luxury of multiple offers.
Employers also have knowledge of what they will pay, meanwhile discussions of compensation are discouraged from the candidate. Pay expectations asymmetries end up wasting both employer and candidate time in many cases
Agreed, some jobs don't allow for negotiation. The job I hold is a set salary for my title; my peers make exactly the same amount that I do, and I am fairly senior.
But, my post was in response to a situation where salary negotiation is assumed. If somebody asks you for a number first, they don't have a set wage. In that case, go high and come down. I am not saying that you should ask for $150k plus stock options to be an admin asst, but you could ask for $60k (depending on region, etc). It's not out of line and it lets the employer counter if they want.
Salary negotiation is not a pass/fail option. If you don't get the number exactly right that starts the conversation.
When I negotiate I tell them what I currently make or what ive made prior. I usually mention the highest pay rate I've made and say that was very comfortable. Of course, I don't tell them that was the highest paying position.
My last job they dropped the pay about 2-3% after I accepted and they claimed it was a misunderstanding. They said the original pay was high for my position in which I went OFF telling him this job was already an $800/wk paycut from my prior project and all my friends in similar positions had told me not to take such a pay cut. And yes, I got pissed and told him all this. Then he asked if I was still interested in the job. I knew they were desperate. Badly desparate as they needed me to start in 3 days.
I told him "well now with this new information I am going to call the other two companies I originally had interviews with tomorrow, as soon as we get off the phone, and I'll let you know after that"
I was so mad I didn't care. He called me back less than 10 minutes later and gave me my original amount.
Then that started me off bitter on the new job. Then I found out the project duration was considerably shorter than I was told as well. I was a contractor. I received another job offer when I found that information and gave them an ultimatum. Bring me on full time on my terms or I'm leaving and again they would be effed. Gave them 2 days. They made an offer which was what I knew in my head I would accept, and also knew they wouldn't offer their highest amount. So I asked for $10k more and I've been here happily since lol. I actually have a great gig and they've invested a lot into me so I know I have good job security. I get along pretty well with everyone also and I've actually turned down several much higher paying jobs since starting as I like the job security. My boss has been great as well so that helps. The issue wasnt with my current company but the contracting company that brought me on.
Needless to say, I love to negotiate! You just have to know your position, their position, and the job market in case you walk.
Agreed, some jobs don't allow for negotiation. The job I hold is a set salary for my title; my peers make exactly the same amount that I do, and I am fairly senior.
But, my post was in response to a situation where salary negotiation is assumed. If somebody asks you for a number first, they don't have a set wage. In that case, go high and come down. I am not saying that you should ask for $150k plus stock options to be an admin asst, but you could ask for $60k (depending on region, etc). It's not out of line and it lets the employer counter if they want.
Salary negotiation is not a pass/fail option. If you don't get the number exactly right that starts the conversation.
I just don't understand this argument. If a job application asks me for my current compensation but the employer does not have any compensation range visible to the candidate, what are we as candidates to assume other than the employer will give us what they feel is the minimum amount of compensation if they offer us a position? I'm sure I've had many applications discarded here in TN because I expected an IA level salary - which just won't happen in this state. If a salary minimum is above a certain level, I'm sure Taleo discards those applications.
I currently make under $25k here in TN. I was at $45k in IA last year for the exact same job role. I stupidly moved back, and now future offers will be based off of my current income, and probably not the market rate for the position. If a position normally pays a minimum of $40k, but the employer sees I currently make $24k, they will probably assume I'll jump for $32k. Because I don't know the usual minimum, the employer gets a bargain, but I don't get the compensation I'd have otherwise gotten if my income had been more normal.
I had an interview with a company about two years ago that was a more senior position than what I had. The interviewer said the salary was $23k, and they wanted several years of IT experience as well as advanced SQL skills. I just walked out. Had they been honest about their expectations, neither party's time would have been wasted.
I just don't understand this argument. If a job application asks me for my current compensation but the employer does not have any compensation range visible to the candidate, what are we as candidates to assume other than the employer will give us what they feel is the minimum amount of compensation if they offer us a position? I'm sure I've had many applications discarded here in TN because I expected an IA level salary - which just won't happen in this state. If a salary minimum is above a certain level, I'm sure Taleo discards those applications.
I currently make under $25k here in TN. I was at $45k in IA last year for the exact same job role. I stupidly moved back, and now future offers will be based off of my current income, and probably not the market rate for the position. If a position normally pays a minimum of $40k, but the employer sees I currently make $24k, they will probably assume I'll jump for $32k. Because I don't know the usual minimum, the employer gets a bargain, but I don't get the compensation I'd have otherwise gotten if my income had been more normal.
I had an interview with a company about two years ago that was a more senior position than what I had. The interviewer said the salary was $23k, and they wanted several years of IT experience as well as advanced SQL skills. I just walked out. Had they been honest about their expectations, neither party's time would have been wasted.
Exactly. Rather than battling with you, the employer will simply move on to the next desperate person waiting in line for the job. It's an employer's market right now. There's simply not all that much leeway currently to try to haggle a salary towards the top of the range for your field unless you've got some incredibly unique accomplishments under your belt.
Exactly. Rather than battling with you, the employer will simply move on to the next desperate person waiting in line for the job. It's an employer's market right now. There's simply not all that much leeway currently to try to haggle a salary towards the top of the range for your field unless you've got some incredibly unique accomplishments under your belt.
I must be naive, because I will negotiate in an employer's market.
In 2008, I went from $25k to $50k with some negotiation. In 2011, I was laid off when the company went out of business. I had an offer for $68k and $75k from 2 different companies, before I left. Sure, the employers could have gone with other guys. I was willing to keep looking.
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