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If out-sourcing to poor nations and robots , and free trade agreements with poor nations under cutting the labor force and the investors need to remove labor and get slave labor for profit , then the economies are on the brink of economic collapse where depressions are in the plan of these corrupt economic ideas of investors
I love it when myopic detractors blame businesses for adapting to changes, while completely ignoring or even celebrating the changes that necessitate the adaptation.
Remember what Dell did years ago? If you want tech support from someone based in North America you can pay more for it. Otherwise the default is India. An accent on familiarity - Los Angeles Times.
So like Dell McD's can sell dollar menu size burgers for $1 using robots, next door BK can use humans, and sell dollar menu size burgers for $5. Just like Dell, where most customers opt not to pay extra, most customers will choose the $1 robot burger over the $5 human burger. They will be behind me in line at the $1 burger option.
And the jobs creating the robots will be in China,
In the current American business climate, that is very likely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler123
while the jobs servicing them will be filled with imported, cheap visa workers.
I believe that some of the displaced workers will get the education or training needed to fill the resulting jobs.
You must not have a very high opinion of American workers, if you think that each of them will just move on to some other unskilled job. I'm sure many will, but some will adapt to the changes, and will benefit from them.
Well, look at healthcare. The electronic health record reduces the need for people. Look at Epic EHR. I know of at least one hospital that has eliminated some of their departments and have told employees there will be further layoffs after Epic EHR is implemented. They will still need people, but not as many.
My point is that the number of unskilled jobs will plummet, and a smaller number of skilled jobs will be created.
As I've tried to point out before, don't think it's just "unskilled" jobs. We're not far from automated surgeries, and a good number of legal tasks have already been automated.
My point is that the number of unskilled jobs will plummet, and a smaller number of skilled jobs will be created.
And what effect would it have on the labor participation rate because of fewer jobs and taxes when less people are able to work and more will require welfare?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn
So like Dell McD's can sell dollar menu size burgers for $1 using robots, next door BK can use humans, and sell dollar menu size brugers for $5. Just like Dell, where most customers opt not to pay extra, most customers will choose the $1 robot burger over the $5 human burger. They will be behind me in line at the $1 burger option.
Next.
That is if labor costs rise dramatically due to the $15 minimum wage. That is unless it is the more sensible $9 that the administration wants to pay. I look at it more like this:
Think of specialty burger joints like say Five Guys or Smash Burger. They do thing different than the normal locations like McDonald's and Burger King and use bigger and fresh patties compared to the frozen ones you see at McDonald's and Burger King. There you would take the premium for the higher cost with that expectation. If you go to say Wendy's who hasn't they maybe more but no where near the paying $5 for the $1 dollar menu burger you propose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowpoke_TX
I believe that some of the displaced workers will get the education or training needed to fill the resulting jobs.
You must not have a very high opinion of American workers, if you think that each of them will just move on to some other unskilled job. I'm sure many will, but some will adapt to the changes, and will benefit from them.
I am sure there are a number will take the training but that is because of their make-up. However, I share Rambler's opinions because Americans on a whole take the path of least resistance and in many cases are encouraged to do this. Looking at the poverty line, I would be borderline for Medicaid as a single but if I were a baby-mama, I would be entitled to it to a higher level. Wages are the same, many fixed costs are the same, just a few more variable costs. Now should I look for better employment, I lose these safety nets even if I am NOT able to afford it much more based on my fixed costs and any student loans.
And what effect would it have on the labor participation rate because of fewer jobs and taxes when less people are able to work and more will require welfare?
That depends on how many choose to go on welfare, vs how many choose to continue working, by either migrating to other unskilled jobs or getting themselves trained & educated in preparation for filling the skilled jobs that will result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk
I am sure there are a number will take the training but that is because of their make-up.
Well, the number of skilled jobs will be less than the number of unskilled jobs they replace. So the amount of available positions will discourage some from pursuing this avenue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk
However, I share Rambler's opinions because Americans on a whole take the path of least resistance and in many cases are encouraged to do this.
You make a great case for welfare reform.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk
Looking at the poverty line, I would be borderline for Medicaid as a single but if I were a baby-mama, I would be entitled to it to a higher level. Wages are the same, many fixed costs are the same, just a few more variable costs. Now should I look for better employment, I lose these safety nets even if I am NOT able to afford it much more based on my fixed costs and any student loans.
A higher income eliminates the need for welfare. If the amount of welfare available is sufficiently high, then it will serve as a disincentive to those who, in the absence of strongly-held convictions regarding work vs welfare fraud, are inclined to "take the path of least resistance."
I have said it many times before, and I'll say it again. The problem with safety nets is that some use them as hammocks.
Give a man a fish...
Last edited by Slowpoke_TX; 12-07-2013 at 03:01 PM..
Reason: syntax error
Here is an ugly little truth.
While one may replace say 100 workers, out of those workers who are being automated, none will ever move into a job which has to do with either engineering or maintaining the machine.
The reason why is the education gap is to large to overcome. This is why we have the employment polarization we do know with the waves of automation which have been happening. Those who can transition are often already high skill workers, but middle and low skilled workers are essentially left completely behind.
The way automation works is also not some robot taking several peoples job. But rather an entire industry and it's related industries basically implements an automated system and improved business processes. Several people find themselves laid off, but they cannot transition into another career in a related field, but they do not have the necessary skills to move up. When necessary skills these days means going from a high school degree to a college degree (often in engineering) from a competitive university (not a for-profit), these workers who find themselves unable to really change. Add to that they are often in areas where these high skill jobs do not exist in great numbers.
So we often get left with an entire class of workers left behind, and then...not much to replace their position. People do not end up being those working on these processes, they fall into a large pool of low skilled workers, thus further depressing wages through a labor surplus of low skill workers.
In terms of automation, the minimum wage is not really a factor in it one way or the other. It is going to happen at some point. Ultimately you are left with a society of highly skilled, highly educated, engineers, managers, and professionals, and well...everybody else.
This is the labor polarization which is happening now. It is difficult to stop. The reality is the system is ever improving.
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