Will robotics kill the American worker? (temporary, paid, hired, illegal)
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[quote=andywire;32529586]Yes, they do have vocational training. College counselors and HS teachers don't like to recommend them though. They are deemed "unfit" as far as careers go.
Very few high schools actually have a tech-prep curriculum. Notice, I said "technical preparation curriculum." And for sure, all the counseling kids get in school tells them that such careers are undesirable. Counselors say this even to kids they know in their hearts will never get college degrees.
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Outside of that, these vocational programs mainly instill the interest. No class can teach anywhere near what you need to hit the ground running. Much of the knowledge required for any trade should have been taught in HS though. Math, following directions, listening effectively... Obviously, HS teachers have been dropping the ball.
That's what I mean by technical preparation. No, high school should not try to turn out plumbers and X-ray techs. They should be hammering algebra and plane geometry, technical document comprehension, business writing, applied physics (electrics, electronics, hydraulics, pneumatics), et cetera.
. No, high school should not try to turn out plumbers and X-ray techs. They should be hammering algebra and plane geometry, technical document comprehension, business writing, applied physics (electrics, electronics, hydraulics, pneumatics), et cetera.
I'd add calculus and economics to your list,and yes, passing every single course listed should be a high school diploma requirement.
30% btw , last i saw, ranks us tenth globally, in a metric we once led, so I am sure it can be increased (how much ??), but I would love to see at least more education and training, even short of a B.A. degree from the 70%.
This attitude is the real problem. The idea that "a HS diploma is not enough", yet nobody is discussing how to change this. If the K-12 system is not providing young people with the level of education required to make it in the private sector, than why are parents sending their children there? Why is this accepted as status quo?
If the current system is broken, than fix it. There is no excuse for a young person graduating after 12 years of dedicated education, and not possessing the basic foundation to begin a career. Either the school system is broken, or employers are purposely compelling young people to vigorously compete by out educating one another. There's really no point to all this, particularly when both cohorts require the same OTJT for many, if not most entry level jobs. Exceptions would be medical, highly technical jobs, legal professionals etc. Admin assistants do not need to go to college to learn to transfer phone calls.
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Originally Posted by bobtn
I'd add calculus and economics to your list,and yes, passing every single course listed should be a high school diploma requirement.
Can you name any common career paths (outside of engineering) where calculus would a requirement for success? I've met engineers who couldn't explain calculus functions... And you expect the average American student to breeze through it?
Teach the kids what they need to succeed in the private sector. Send them to college if they want to specialize, hopefully in something useful. We have enough college educated baristas, as if this is some sort of benefit to the economy.
This attitude is the real problem. The idea that "a HS diploma is not enough", yet nobody is discussing how to change this. If the K-12 system is not providing young people with the level of education required to make it in the private sector, than why are parents sending their children there? Why is this accepted as status quo?
If the current system is broken, than fix it.
I'd love to improve it, but it still would not be enough. It is the foundation (a/k/a the basis), and that is what it should be. You do not live in a foundation, you live in what is built upon a foundation.
The fact it isn't enough is largely due to the fact we are a 1st world, advanced economy now. That's a great thing.
I'd love to improve it, but it still would not be enough. It is the foundation (a/k/a the basis), and that is what it should be. You do not live in a foundation, you live in what is built upon a foundation.
The fact it isn't enough is largely due to the fact we are a 1st world, advanced economy now. That's a great thing.
And we weren't a first world economy in 1970? The difference today is, we have a 16 million gap in jobs to working age adults. Employers can make insane demands for pseudo back office burger flipping jobs and probably find someone desperate enough to apply. It has nothing to do with education and everything to do with the decimation of prospects in the private sector. Add to that the influx of illegal laborers willing to do any job available for $5/hr, and American workers are being knocked around on both ends of the spectrum.
Is Germany not a 1st world country? After all, only 1 in 10 Germans has a college degree. They must be living in the stone age over there...
And Russia holds the title of having the most college degreed adults at 54%. So by your logic, they are the most developed and advanced nation on the globe. You should call Putin to congratulate him on his success...
Is Germany not a 1st world country? After all, only 1 in 10 Germans has a college degree. They must be living in the stone age over there...
And Russia holds the title of having the most college degreed adults at 54%. So by your logic, they are the most developed and advanced nation on the globe. You should call Putin to congratulate him on his success...
If we wish to maintain our economy, the world's largest unlike Germany, which is less than one third our size, we'll need to improve on our tenth place rank. I know that offends your anti post secondary education mantra, and honestly I don't care that it does.
Germany is roughly just 2x California.
When you're #1 as we are, you need to do more to keep it that way.
PS, In 1970, most of China was still in their rice paddies, and the economy was not global. That is not going to reverse. Our competition now is everyone else on the planet. Friedman is correct-The World is Flat (economically).
If we wish to maintain our economy, the world's largest unlike Germany, which is less than one third our size, we'll need to improve on our tenth place rank. I know that offends your anti post secondary education mantra, and honestly I don't care that it does.
Germany is roughly just 2x California.
When you're #1 as we are, you need to do more to keep it that way.
PS, In 1970, most of China was still in their rice paddies, and the economy was not global. That is not going to reverse. Our competition now is everyone else on the planet. Friedman is correct-The World is Flat (economically).
Ah yes... Believing that not everyone requires 24K average worth of post secondary education is "anti post secondary education"... No, that is common sense. The only people who benefit are faculty/staff, shareholders of for profit institutions, etc.
Are you really saying that Germany has a sound economy due to it's small size? Are you saying the fundamental dynamics of an economic system suddenly diverge based on the size of the country and it's economy??? I'm sure there are some economists who would love to read your thesis...
Guess what... Germany runs a trade surplus with China. They effectively compete, even with their alleged handicap. Well, the Chinese have essentially voted against your logic.
Guess what... Germany runs a trade surplus with China. They effectively compete, even with their alleged handicap. Well, the Chinese have essentially voted against your logic.
Hardly, andrew. We live in larger homes with far more stuff (gadgets) than the average in other nations. We love our imported, inexpensive stuff.
The US median home square footage has gone up several hundred square feet versus an era where family size was more than one person higher per housing unit. The extra space was not unfilled. We bought everything under the sun.
When I was growing up, a 19" color tv was $400 and multi tv households were rare, and that $400 would be close to $3k now. Today folks in the same size home have 3 Asian made HD tvs whose total cost is most likely far less than $2k. A 33% cost reduction in "real purchasing power", with most likely 120" of tv versus 19" back than.
I have no doubt if we lived as frugally as we did 40 years ago, we'd have no trade deficit. We chose to have one, by wanting more stuff, all the time. We do not hesitate to spend far more laviously as our parents and grandparents did. And having Asia make it inexpensive for us further feeds our addiction to stuff.
out of those workers who are being automated, none will ever move into a job which has to do with either engineering or maintaining the machine.
Those who can transition are often already high skill workers, but middle and low skilled workers are essentially left completely behind.
That is predicated upon the assumption that no worker is capable of expanding his/her skill set - or willing to do so. I don't believe that all who are both capable and willing have already made the transition.
If the K-12 system is not providing young people with the level of education required to make it in the private sector, than why are parents sending their children there? Why is this accepted as status quo?
Because education is compulsory under the law, and most parents don't decide to home-school their children.
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Originally Posted by andywire
If the current system is broken, than fix it.
Any suggestions to that effect are ridiculed by teachers' unions and their allies in the Democratic Party. None of them ever propose any alternatives, either, they just demand more funding (as if the system is perfect in every other way).
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Originally Posted by andywire
Teach the kids what they need to succeed in the private sector. Send them to college if they want to specialize, hopefully in something useful. We have enough college educated baristas, as if this is some sort of benefit to the economy.
Agreed totally. I'd add "teach the kids ONLY what the need to succeed in the private sector." There is too much focus on "soft skills," while hard skills go unmastered, if not unlearned. Ironically, if the student doesn't possess the necessary hard skills, he/she will not be qualified to hold any position, thus rendering soft skills worthless in the quest to earn a living.
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