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Old 12-06-2013, 08:26 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,901,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
You're completely overlooking the costs of the "automation" along with the maintenance. You will require some workers on site to keep things running smoothly. The idea of creating a completely human free assembly line of burgers and fries might sound simply, but it isn't.
.

Wrong. That is why I would say the robot must cost 150k tops. A $72k annual labor savings means the ROI payback period is two years. Sweet.

When you buy automation, again if you are not a mom and pop, the supplier contractually obligates themselves to service it for an extended period of time as needed assuming you force the issue.

We had one in this week, just doing p/m on stuff we bought from them. It was working well, but we want to keep it that way, and unlike mom and pops you are used to, we can negotiate P/M work into our agreement to buy automation from them. Only an idiot (a/ka many mom and pop owners) spends that much w/o requiring the supplier to make sure all is working well, long after the purchase.
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Old 12-06-2013, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,651 posts, read 24,678,786 times
Reputation: 28301
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
Wrong. That is why I would say the robot must cost 150k tops. A $72k annual labor savings means the ROI payback period is two years. Sweet.

When you buy automation, again if you are not a mom and pop, the supplier contractually obligates themselves to service it for an extended period of time as needed assuming you force the issue.

We had one in this week, just doing p/m on stuff we bought from them. It was working well, but we want to keep it that way, and unlike mom and pops you are used to, we can negotiate P/M work into our agreement to buy automation from them. Only an idiot (a/ka many mom and pop owners) spends that much w/o requiring the supplier to make sure all is working well, long after the purchase.
Those "mom and pops" are just as on board with automation. Most use some form of automation today. But this isn't about your company. This is about a McDonalds franchise, which doesn't gross anywhere near the same number of sales, or move anywhere near the same volume. Companies actively investing in automation make plenty more money, and still many go bankrupt.

You're view on the matter is far too simplistic. What works on paper and what works in the real world are often two entirely different things. Get back to me when McDonalds franchises are grossing 5 million in sales every year. No comment on any of the other expenses I have listen for you? Only labor and mechanical expenses??? Convenient how you've chosen to leave that out in your reply...

And also, suppliers extend the same service period to smaller companies. That's not an unusual deal for them to provide. Matter of fact, it's pretty much the standard in the industry.
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Old 12-06-2013, 08:50 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,901,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
Those "mom and pops" are just as on board with automation. Most use some form of automation today. But this isn't about your company. This is about a McDonalds franchise, which doesn't gross anywhere near the same number of sales, or move anywhere near the same volume. Companies actively investing in automation make plenty more money, and still many go bankrupt.

You're view on the matter is far too simplistic. What works on paper and what works in the real world are often two entirely different things. Get back to me when McDonalds franchises are grossing 5 million in sales every year. No comment on any of the other expenses I have listen for you? Only labor and mechanical expenses???
Most franchisees own many, often dozens of locations. One in my native New England region has revenue in the HUNDREDS of millions annually, and a much larger corporate staff than your employee, just administering this corp which is just one franchisee. Not on par with my employer, but at lets say 200 mill per year revenue at all locations, cash flow would easily absorb several million annually in capital expenditures. (Newsflash: The franchisees with the clout are not the guys who own one itty bitty McD's.)

You will see the same thing with this robot as most other automation. In business, often they are called betas. You pick a few of your less busy locations, start them there, would out any kinks with the supplier, than roll them out, at another 5-10% of your locations each year, until you have installed them everywhere. I fully anticipate the process of getting these installed at the majority of burger joints is a 5-10 year endeavor. Within a few years, the robots will cost 1/3rd todays price. Just as ours at work get progressively cheaper with more ability!
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Old 12-06-2013, 09:03 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,651 posts, read 24,678,786 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
Most franchisees own many, often dozens of locations. One in my native New England region has revenue in the HUNDREDS of millions annually, and a much larger corporate staff than your employee, just administering this corp which is just one franchisee. Not on par with my employer, but at lets say 200 mill per year revenue at all locations, cash flow would easily absorb several million annually in capital expenditures. (Newsflash: The franchisees with the clout are not the guys who own one itty bitty McD's.)
You're talking about MANY locations. In that case, the initial investment costs would be mammoth. Going forward, they would be spending millions keeping these locations in operation. What happens when there is a technical glitch? The location is losing money until it can be brought back online. They will wish they had workers around at that point. Just wait till the next solar flare wipes out every computer... We are about due for one any year now.

And don't be so naive... Surely you knew I was talking about individual franchise locations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
You will see the same thing with this robot as most other automation. In business, often they are called betas. You pick a few of your less busy locations, start them there, would out any kinks with the supplier, than roll them out, at another 5-10% of your locations each year, until you have installed them everywhere. I fully anticipate the process of getting these installed at the majority of burger joints is a 5-10 year endeavor. Within a few years, the robots will cost 1/3rd todays price. Just as ours at work get progressively cheaper with more ability!
Anticipate all you want. It doesn't make it practical. If these are so great, why haven't they started yet? It's easy to be optimistic when you have no direct exposure to robotics outside of the balance sheet. What works in one industry doesn't automatically work in another though. Can you believe there are manufacturing settings that still use 60 year old machinery? The reason isn't that they don't appreciate the value added savings of automation. It's because the old way still makes money, and sense for the work they do. Many times, automating a process would consume much more time. Just the same, hiring burger flippers (they don't flip the burger due to automation and standardization) still makes sense today, and likely for the next decade as well.
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Old 12-06-2013, 09:10 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,901,205 times
Reputation: 7313
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
You're talking about MANY locations. In that case, the initial investment costs would be mammoth. Going forward, they would be spending millions keeping these locations in operation. What happens when there is a technical glitch?.
That is why they will choose betas. A beta is a sample site used to test the concept and work out the kinks before rolling many more out. The robot supplier will be the one spending the big bucks during the beta. Usually, they LOSE money on it, and do it simply to get the larger volume business after the process of the installation is up and running beautifully.

That is what you can't see at a mom and pop. Mom and pops can purchase one robot sure, but big business will not be coming from them, so there is no beta. The supplier makes all his money on that one, insignificant sale. They will NOT budge on the price, as the customer is not spending enough money to get such a break.

PS: Yes, we have dealt with antiquated mom and pops that would not invest. We weeded them out, got great savings in doing so, and are down to dealing with 21st century suppliers. So I am aware many mom and pops are behind the times, and will eventually fade away. Progress doesn't stop for Luddites.
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Old 12-06-2013, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,747,628 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
That is why they will choose betas. A beta is a sample site used to test the concept and work out the kinks before rolling many more out. The robot supplier will be the one spending the big bucks during the beta. Usually, they LOSE money on it, and do it simply to get the larger volume business after the process of the installation is up and running beautifully.

That is what you can't see at a mom and pop. Mom and pops can purchase one robot sure, but big business will not be coming from them, so there is no beta. The supplier makes all his money on that one, insignificant sale. They will NOT budge on the price, as the customer is not spending enough money to get such a break.

PS: Yes, we have dealt with antiquated mom and pops that would not invest. We weeded them out, got great savings in doing so, and are down to dealing with 21st century suppliers. So I am aware many mom and pops are behind the times, and will eventually fade away. Progress doesn't stop for Luddites.
And hopefully this Beta is boycotted for cutting employees whether it is by big labor, just the workers or God-forbid, the consumers themselves. As I've said, I've used automated touch-screens at fast food and stores, just because of the lack of lines (or in one case it was the only option as Be Our Guest uses only kiosks for ordering lunch.) In this case, the stores and fast food STILL put together the food and workers actually work with customers having issues like my family did at Be Our Guest (when trying to get all the special ordering correct.) Compare this to your perfect world McDonald's automation that would remove most workers of 40-60 worker staff at each location.

Not that I actually go to McDonald's other than once a year. If anything when it comes to fast food burgers, I rather go to Wendy's, Whataburger, Jack in the Box and even Carl's Jr. I've had Five Guys, it's good but their jr burgers are still too huge for me...
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Old 12-06-2013, 10:04 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,901,205 times
Reputation: 7313
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
And hopefully this Beta is boycotted for cutting employees whether it is by big labor, just the workers or God-forbid, the consumers themselves.
Why would anyone boycott unless they got such friendly service consistently before they valued that experience above convenience?

I use automated checkouts all the time, as there are too few cheerful store employees, and 20 years ago, most were friendly, and still making McWages than. What changed is Americans now have copped an attitude that a McJob merits more than a McWage, while 20 years ago, they focused on getting experience, than adding education, training, skills, etc and leaving the McJob for the next 16 year old.

the McJob has not changed, nor should it. The attitude changed for the worst.
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Old 12-06-2013, 10:14 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,747,628 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
Why would anyone boycott unless they got such friendly service consistently before they valued that experience above convenience?

I use automated checkouts all the time, as there are too few cheerful store employees, and 20 years ago, most were friendly, and still making McWages than. What changed is Americans now have copped an attitude that a McJob merits more than a McWage, while 20 years ago, they focused on getting experience, than adding education, training, skills, etc and leaving the McJob for the next 16 year old.

the McJob has not changed, nor should it. The attitude changed for the worst.
What do you expect? 20 years ago, McWages were higher compared to COL.
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Old 12-06-2013, 10:20 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,901,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
What do you expect? 20 years ago, McWages were higher compared to COL.
Baloney. Those clamoring that cherrypick the comparative months used. Its also not as if there is a universal COL. $7.25 an hour in Arkansas is going to go miles more than NYC.

The big change is 40 and 50 year olds are now taking Mcjobs, having not advanced their skills.
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Old 12-06-2013, 10:39 PM
 
7,912 posts, read 7,749,708 times
Reputation: 4146
Panera bread already has terminals to slide a credit card and then pick up your order without dealing with a cashier. they work ok although I don't know if they are as fast.
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