If I never went to college, I would be in a much better position than I am now

[Ralph_Kirk]

I know a number of kids whose parents I told when they in high school, "Start talking to him about getting ready for trade school, so he can concentrate on getting the basics down pat."

But, no, they insisted on pushing them to college, even though the kids were totally disengaged and barely getting through high school.

Yet, the parents spent thousands of dollars putting the kids into college anyway until the kids finally flunked out, hung around the house a couple more years, then finally started learning a trade in the local community college.

Except for one who held up a woman with a bb gun and went to prison for three years. He had wanted to join the Marines right out of high school (he was disengaged from studies, but did very well in team sports). But, no, his parents insisted on pushing him to college. They had actually come to me for my military background to talk him out of the Marines. "Are you kidding? I was in the military 26 years. If he wants to go, I'll drive him to the recruiter."

But no. Now his opportunities are severely limited, to say the least.

[andywire]

Originally Posted by mkpunk

I don't think I am worth more than 40K right now, I need to build that skillset, I just need a chance. One that I feel my degree hasn't helped me get. It's the old, you're over-qualified so you cannot get this job because you'll just leave (big with the retail and fast food jobs) but this job thinks you are under-qualified
(with the "entry-level" jobs.)

I do agree that the main issue is how my generation and generation Z are being told they "need" a college degree to be in the middle class. The issue is the wording and a balance by parents or others. I never had a teacher say take the trades. Nor did my parents talk to me about school until senior year in high school when I woke up and realize that I could do business. (I blame that partially on school not allowing you to try on skills during high school unless you push for it and are willing to drop courses. (For me, I would have to drop Chorus to do that before hand which for me was a passion but not a career.)

Are you going to develop that skillset spending hours on the internet? Seriously, you can't blame everything on the shortcomings of your education. At some point, you need to quit blaming the system and start looking at ways to fit in to it. What skills are considered valuable? What are you doing to obtain those skills? Why does it always have to be the employers who provide you with the opportunities?

Originally Posted by Red3311

I have met more millionaires who were college dropouts than those with any form of degree.

College breeds career minded thinkers. Nothing wrong with that, as they are opting for a lifestyle of comfortable security. There's always use for more cogs in the wheel.

Let's just say, some of us college drop outs tend to think outside the box when it comes to securing a source of income... Of course, you also have plenty more dimwits who just weren't smart enough to survive a day in college, and they bring down the collective income earning figures.

[mdovell]

Originally Posted by Red3311

The problem with this new generation is that since they or their parents or their debtors paid for them to goto school, that they deserve to be employed and think they are "smarter" than most everyone around them. A college degree is the new high school diploma...simple now that anyone can get it online, an MBA has lost its luster as well. The only true way to "get ahead" in this country these days is start your own company or work in a specialized field (underwater weilding, plumbing etc)...Dont think for a second that a General Business degree makes you worth over $40k a year these days.

That's nice in theory but fatal in fact. Even at the highest numbers per state in RI and Ma only 40% of people have a bachelors degree.

If anyone could get one online then they would have gotten one by now. MBA is another issue I can make arguments on that alone.

Specialized fields that you suggest are only specialized because frankly the law protects them!

In Mass only licensed plumbers can do plumbing work in walls, ceilings and floors. If it's exposed you can do whatever you want.

So when they try to change the law who complains to the government? Plumbers...why? Because they'll lose business.

I'm not saying plumbing is easy work by any means but it really shouldn't take that much technical know how on the residential side to do you own work provided you have the tools and information.

It's funny you mention underwater because here to weld stainless steel you need a tank license. I worked at a place that hired one to do just that. He made $75 a day. Sounds impressive until you realize that they'd only need him for four hours a week!

Just because something is specialized and a high rate does NOT mean they have carte blanche to take forever to complete the task. The big dig has been over for years. Construction has declined. There's still work but it's not nearly as much as it was before. I've heard from some that state that general contractors have business but there have been many subcontractors that have folded. So on the surface it might appear to be busy but it's general doing the work that subcontractors were trying to do initally.

"I have met more millionaires who were college dropouts than those with any form of degree."

Eh. If you want to make millions frankly you are still going to have to raise capital for any business. To go to a bank to raise capital without a degree is not going to go well. Yes there is kickstarter but that can only go so far. Having great ideas is great but unless you can finance it or talk to the stakeholders that can and convince them that's what it will remain.

If education didn't matter why is being a high school drop out an economic death sentence (assuming no GED)?

Some talk about "real world skills" but what exactly does that mean?

If it is something so general then it will not really stand out. I would say Word and Powerpoint fit in here. If it is something so specific then the ultility of doing it will be pretty thin. Making a 3d movie with blender might sound cool but that isn't *really* going to help you that much outside of a video production studio.

So what then is a skill? Balancing a checkbook? Well online baking does that for everyone. Scheduling meetings? Any PIM software in the past 15 years can do that.

The reason why a degree is often sought is because it is the most efficient "thing" to evaluate. If someone has experience that's fine but that might be only relavant to them. The openness of records also makes education more attractive. Businesses are of no real obligation to provide backgrounds on employees to other companies. If there is a warrant sure but time is money and frankly to budget for tasks like that would be considered a waste of time.

My recommendations to the OP is that quanitify what you are selling to the employer. It's as simple as that. As I said before employers don't teach skills that have a value to somewhere else but at the same time what did the employee specifically get out of it? Is there another way you can phrase what you did in terms that this other organization can understand?

Quantify, quantify quantify

I had a job once as a kid where I was sorting corporate votes. It might have felt like I was flipping pages but these were votes. Tabulating proxies for mutual fund companies. On the surface it might have been obvious how votes went because of the stacks of paper. But being corporate each shareholder has one proxy but could own 1 share to potentially millions. So it could not be counted manually as if it was an election.

[mkpunk]

Originally Posted by andywire

Are you going to develop that skillset spending hours on the internet?

One can and if you noticed I actually have spent less time on C-D the last few. Glad to see you paid attention to it.

Originally Posted by andywire

Seriously, you can't blame everything on the shortcomings of your education. At some point, you need to quit blaming the system and start looking at ways to fit in to it.

I blame a lot of things and not just education. Some of it is me, I could have done better in college or tried to actually get a job while doing college however at the time I saw trying to get B's and A's as "more important." I could have formed relationships better with professors to look at jobs too. I could have done many things different, hindsight makes everyone see thing clearly, that is why it is a bias.

Originally Posted by andywire

What skills are considered valuable?

Depends on the industry. If you talk trades (something you always do) I don't have those skills at all because I am not good at building things (never was too good with my hands.)

Originally Posted by andywire

What are you doing to obtain those skills?

That is the trick, if you don't have much of the first step (something many millennials have an issue with due to coddling by "helicopter parents" and teachers) it is hard to figure out skills. There is a reason why millennials are also called "Generation Screwed."

Or if I were to get "in demand skills" I get more debt but with or without experience and we are in a day where experience is king.

Originally Posted by andywire

Why does it always have to be the employers who provide you with the opportunities?

Because I don't have money to bootstrap myself and volunteering only works if you have money to get you to and from it. However nobody thinks about that side. That and you can really only get experience if there is a place to gain experience. If there is nowhere to gain experience, you have to bootstrap yourself to do so.