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The government decides the things which constitute a crime, and decides who has done those things.
It is true that the government decides what constitutes a crime but it is the individual is responsible for abiding by the laws of this country. The government does not decide who has done these things.
In most cases a person is judged by a jury of ordinary citizens and not the government. The government certainly is in charge of recording these events and is also in charge of running the trial but the government does not simply assign felonies to people.
In the vast majority of cases people who commit felonies are felons. They deserve the life they make for themselves.
And now we have the highest incarceration AND recidivism rate in the country...so your way worked right??? The Republican way...it's not about doing what is right, but what is profitable. Try doing some real research instead of listening to Faux News.
A true debate requires both sides to present facts and well reasoned arguments. I see no well reasoned arguments here, just a political rant and slogan slinging, and a link to a left-wing activist website.
The U.S. is a violent country with a couple of especially violent population subgroups -- the African-Americans and the Hispanics. Roughly half of violent crimes are committed by these two groups, with the Blacks in the lead. If you controlled for these two groups, the rest of the population is relatively well behaved, at least in terms of physical violence.
If you would like to do some real research, visit bjs.gov where all these statistics are laid out for you. I neither defend nor justify the situation; I merely present the realities. I wish it wasn't this way.
Frankly, I'm against imprisonment for all but the most extreme cases. As one ex-con told me many years ago, of all the men he knew inside the penitentiary, about 90% had no business being behind bars and the other 10% should be locked up for the rest of their lives. Probably a skewed perspective, because spending time with people obviously humanizes their situation and colors their history with a sympathetic perspective, though they still were responsible for their actions (except for the mentally ill).
I would rather see a crash program to foster economic recovery in the inner cities where most of America's murders are committed. Declare some of these places to be economic zones free of taxes and fees and duties for 10 years, to encourage businesses to relocate there, and to encourage the residents to set up shop.
In the long run, the only way off the path to criminality is to offer better alternatives, and not through hand-outs and political sloganeering but through real, organic economic growth that allows people to earn a real living and build self-esteem, and to pass these values on to their children.
In a time of economic frugality such as today, employers become ever more picky. In a time of economic prosperity, questions about one's past become less relevant.
Well, Pontius Pilate, you can't wash your hands of this problem so easily. It turns out "actions have consequences" works both ways. If you tell people who you say haven't followed your rules that they are forever anathama and eligible for only the lowliest of employment if they follow the rules, the inevitable consequence is they are going to decide that following the rules in the future is a loser's game. They have no incentive to follow the rules any more, and significant disincentive. You're actively encouraging recidivism.
I am Jewish so I am not so sure what you mean by your Pontius Pilate reference.
Actions do have consequences and it does work both ways. If felons continue to commit felonies they can go back to jail. I have no problem with that.
Not my problem. I didn't choose to break the law; they did. Now you're telling me I owe them a job?
They made bad choices, and now they have to live with it. Society owes them nothing; they owe society. In fact our criminal justice system doesn't have enough victim compensation.
If someone steals identities, writes bad checks, steals from the cash register, etc., they should have to do something to make up for it other than rotting in a cell costing the taxpayer money. My preference is chain gangs, but perhaps today there are more productive things they could be doing.
Let them pay society back before we talk about how poor little ex-felon deserves a job.
Ahhh, blisterpeanuts...your boundless compassion never fails to warm the cockles of my heart....
BY law i don't think they can say-- ANYTHING but you worked there from such to such a time and your position... nothing about how you left,,,, correct me if I am wrong and if state to state is diff?
This is not true. Many employers choose to only confirm dates of employment because they do not want to be liable for saying anything more.
A true debate requires both sides to present facts and well reasoned arguments. I see no well reasoned arguments here, just a political rant and slogan slinging, and a link to a left-wing activist website.
The U.S. is a violent country with a couple of especially violent population subgroups -- the African-Americans and the Hispanics. Roughly half of violent crimes are committed by these two groups, with the Blacks in the lead. If you controlled for these two groups, the rest of the population is relatively well behaved, at least in terms of physical violence.
If you would like to do some real research, visit bjs.gov where all these statistics are laid out for you. I neither defend nor justify the situation; I merely present the realities. I wish it wasn't this way.
Frankly, I'm against imprisonment for all but the most extreme cases. As one ex-con told me many years ago, of all the men he knew inside the penitentiary, about 90% had no business being behind bars and the other 10% should be locked up for the rest of their lives. Probably a skewed perspective, because spending time with people obviously humanizes their situation and colors their history with a sympathetic perspective, though they still were responsible for their actions (except for the mentally ill).
I would rather see a crash program to foster economic recovery in the inner cities where most of America's murders are committed. Declare some of these places to be economic zones free of taxes and fees and duties for 10 years, to encourage businesses to relocate there, and to encourage the residents to set up shop.
In the long run, the only way off the path to criminality is to offer better alternatives, and not through hand-outs and political sloganeering but through real, organic economic growth that allows people to earn a real living and build self-esteem, and to pass these values on to their children.
In a time of economic frugality such as today, employers become ever more picky. In a time of economic prosperity, questions about one's past become less relevant.
And your proposed "crash program" in the inner cities - to make them economic zones free of taxes, etc....is NOT a hand-out, right?
See, I understand you, blister. You are okay with handouts to big guys...but to little people...no, no hand-out, *********, you're on your own...
Bullshyt! Have YOU ever started a business?
I have.
It is NOT as easy as you make it seem.
For one thing, what startup capital does the recently released felon HAVE with which to start up this putative business? What does he do to support his human needs until such time that this putative business, if it could even be started...begins to bring in some money for said ex-felon?
Anyone starting a business is in that same boat, including people earning good salaries. There are thousands of stories of people living on next to nothing, maxing out credit cards, borrowing from friends and family to finance their start-up. Granted, over half of these ventures don't make it, but enough make it that it's worthwhile to try.
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Your answer is so simplistic as to show you have no concept of the real issues that face recent releases from prison. Among other things my church does...is work with community groups that work with ex-felons. And it is not so simple as you make it out to be.
What about the victims of the felons, especially the violent felons? Does your church spend any time helping them? All this tears and sympathy for ex-cons is right out of the failed liberalism playbook of the 1960s-70s, when suburban white liberals thought they "understood" the criminal mentality and all one need do is be nice to them and offer them a job.
Meanwhile, the battered and bloody victims of their actions were all but forgotten, until victims' rights organizations sprung up to advocate for their members. Imagine the bizarro world of the '70s, when the victims of crimes needed an advocacy organization just to get society to recognize the meaning and impact of injustices committed against them.
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If it were so simple to start a business and make money, everybody would do it.
Well, a lot of people do try to do it, and it requires very hard work and sacrifice, as noted above. If you want to start a program that teaches ex-felons how to start and run a business, more power to you. I wouldn't oppose that, and in fact I think such programs exist. The topic of debate, however, is whether employers should be restricted from knowing someone's criminal past at hiring time, and nothing you or the other sympathizers have said is particularly compelling.
I am Jewish so I am not so sure what you mean by your Pontius Pilate reference.
Actions do have consequences and it does work both ways. If felons continue to commit felonies they can go back to jail. I have no problem with that.
And so you stack the deck in such a way that basically forces them into committing more crimes and going back to jail. Real intelligent!
It is like the so-called welfare moms...you offer them work that pays less than they are getting on welfare, and then expect them to jump at the chance to WORK for less than they got sitting on their butts. Real intelligent!
When you offer ex-cons no way back into society...of COURSE they are going to re-offend. You've given them no other viable alternative!
Blister...yes, I know people like that...that started businesses on a shoestring and maxed out credit cards.
You're forgetting the recently released felon PROBABLY DOES NOT HAVE CREDIT CARDS.
you have YET to address this basic issue.
You are obviously hoping that, by ignoring it...I am going to drop it and let you off the hook on this one. No sir.
You answer the question...O Great Swami Blisterpeanuts!
The topic of debate, however, is whether employers should be restricted from knowing someone's criminal past at hiring time, and nothing you or the other sympathizers have said is particularly compelling.
And nothing YOU have said displays any compassion whatsoever.
You also display a shocking talent at over-simplifying the situation. Perfect example of it is that you talk about people who start businesses on a shoestring and maxed cards...and then expect ex-felons to be able to do the same - FORGETTING...that ex-felons probably don't HAVE credit cards to max.
And regarding your inquiry about my church....if my church were approached by a victims group asking for our help...we would help them, too. We do work with battered women's shelters, we work with homeless advocacy groups...because they have ASKED for our help. To my knowledge, no group such as the ones you love...have actually ASKED for our help.
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