U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 01-19-2014, 10:48 AM
 
914 posts, read 776,464 times
Reputation: 1069

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
You're missing my point. Many jobs require that a person be BONDABLE (not all of them but many of them). A person with a criminal record involving theft often cannot be bonded.

But you bring up a good point. If you own a company, you can decide who you choose to give a chance to and who you don't. As you know, many places in this country are still struggling with higher than healthy unemployment rates. If you, as a hiring manager or business owner, have two candidates for a position and both have equal skill sets and personalities that might fit the job, but one has a criminal record and one doesn't - which would you hire?
But what if the guy with the record has BETTER skills, and an equal personality. Do you still hire the guy who doesn't have a record? My guess is many employers would and do.

 
Old 01-19-2014, 10:56 AM
 
914 posts, read 776,464 times
Reputation: 1069
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
"The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior." Sorry, but that's the truth.
I do not disagree with this. But what I am saying is that...having a record should not automatically disqualify someone from future employment. After all, how does one who made poor life choices in the past ever get over it and make themselves better - if nobody will give them a legal avenue to even TRY?

As with your organization, yes we work with some local-area employers whom we know are willing to work with ex-felons...and generally, only ones that WE refer to them, and who are working within the program that we help out. But there is a great shortage of jobs in general...and an even greater shortage of employers who are willing to give a guy a second chance.
 
Old 01-19-2014, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,070 posts, read 13,591,379 times
Reputation: 22130
I'm happy to say that there is a growing trend for Cities and States to pass "ban the box" ordinances which prohibit employers from asking about criminal convictions. Push to ban crime box on job applications expands - SFGate Most iterations of this law allow employers to ask about convictions, but not at the time the application is submitted.

And while Walmart. Labor Ready and a number of other employers absolutely refuse to hire anyone with a conviction - Costco has no problem hiring ex-felons. I worked in law enforcement for over 20 years and a few years ago I ran into a guy working at Costco who had been arrested many times when I was working in the Police Dept. He recognized me and with a big grin proudly told me about how his whole life had turned around after getting hired at Costco, so yes people can actually turn their lives around but it's pretty darned hard without a job...
 
Old 01-19-2014, 01:46 PM
 
914 posts, read 776,464 times
Reputation: 1069
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
I worked in law enforcement for over 20 years and a few years ago I ran into a guy working at Costco who had been arrested many times when I was working in the Police Dept. He recognized me and with a big grin proudly told me about how his whole life had turned around after getting hired at Costco, so yes people can actually turn their lives around but it's pretty darned hard without a job...
Bingo. Give this man a cigar!
 
Old 01-19-2014, 03:11 PM
 
4 posts, read 19,840 times
Reputation: 11
Default In Texas

Although I agree that an employer should know an applicant's criminal history, and be able to judge for themselves whether or not a person's past convictions apply to the job opening, here in Texas they are just not doing that, most are simply excluding anyone with criminal history at all. Maybe with the exception of heavy labor that men can do, which I can't.

I myself am at the total end of my rope. Long history of medical career, the only thing I know. History of abuse, PTSD, ADD and mental health disorders (bipolar depression). Still I worked hard for many years. I never believed that anyone who wasn't completely guilty could ever be convicted without solid proof. Of course now i know better, though too late...in fact it's all a little too little a little too late. Got set up by some coworker long ago, and although proof was never found to charge me with any type of drug charge, I apparently pissed off the wrong person somehow, and so they did what they threatened...and that was found a charge, "tampering with a government record" which is truly a stretch. What I am guilty of was not paying enough attention, I admit, was going through a pretty rough time, probably didn't even need to be at work at that time but what do ya do? Anyway, no trouble before or even since then, I was completely freaked out, nobody to help support me in any way, and nobody to try to trust except a public defender, who scared me into a plea bargain I should have never accepted. Got made into a huge example by being given a LONG sentence, no probation, no deferred adjudication, just straight to prison. Got out, searched long and hard, and managed to find one job after several months, teaching at a career school, the only one that would hire me with my experience and with my record, and now I know why, because they were doing some illegal things and I would have made a perfect fall person for that, so I turned them in (I'm not wanting to go back for anyone's mess) and they made my life miserable! Have had a very hard time ever since. Still getting mental health treatment, have been fighting for my disability for over three years, after one attorney totally has screwed up my case altogether I got turned down in hearing now and will have to start over and lose any back pay I might have had. HAVE tried to find work, writing online only earned me maybe $20 a week....got fired from a dry cleaners after one week, from another after one day, (not fast enough for either I guess), and did do some mobile phlebotomy from the only company who would hire me, one from out of state that wound up not sending me any pay for like 6 months after the work was done, and later started sending bad paychecks. Tried housekeeping also, same kind of issue...scammed out of money for work done, and it was hard work for me who has physical problems also...I find that with my PTSD it is a huge trigger stemming from the days when my abusive parents kept me home all the time to be their "household slave", so I can't bring myself to do it anymore. Tried Texas Department of Rehabilitative Services, who really couldn't do much to help me since retraining me for anything else, would entail some licensing or certification which I cannot obtain with a felony. Currently I will put ads on Craigslist to do some sewing/alterations for people, of which my skill is moderate (not expert) however I seem to get people who either want to screw me over by not paying me, or they want me to do some huge job for so little pay that it just doesn't earn me anything but a huge headache, or it costs me more in terms of time spent, utilities, supplies or whatever. Tired of doing that since it's not helping any.

So now I'm back at square one, Almost finished with parole, successfully five and a half years later with no problems whatsoever, yet I seem to be going backwards more every day. Pretty much at the end of my rope, thinking that ending it would probably just be best. I used to be good at my job and what i knew, but now my education means nothing.

Have had a bf who is supporting me on his very limited income, who is also almost ready for disability himself with end stage renal failure, and honestly he doesn't make enough, and it is causing problems in that relationship that I can't bring anything in to help. At this point, as we have to share his car, he doesn't want me to work any job that will be very far away (so tight on gas money) or will interfere with his ability to get to work during his work hours or his dialysis which is important.....or anything that I will need to spend any money to do (uniforms, special supplies or clothes or whatever) and so therefore i find myself so limited that I am just giving up. I have tried just about everything I have heard of, for instance was told Goodwill had a program for felons to go back to work, and of course they told me no they didn't, and of course I applied to them multiple times, never a call back. Neither at McDonalds, WalMart or any of the sort. Temp agencies turned me down. and most of the rest of the stuff I have seen is pretty much construction or plumbing or traditionally "male" work that I am unable to do.

All I know is, something has to change.
 
Old 01-19-2014, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,791 posts, read 36,172,094 times
Reputation: 63452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalisiin View Post
But what if the guy with the record has BETTER skills, and an equal personality. Do you still hire the guy who doesn't have a record? My guess is many employers would and do.
One word - LIABILITY.

And with fewer jobs and more applicants, what incentive does an employer have to offset that liability? Why SHOULD they hire the one with the criminal record if they have four applicants for the job who qualify and DON'T have a criminal record?

There actually are some tax incentives for employers to hire people with criminal records, disabilities, etc. Sometimes though, that's just not enough to offset the liabilities that hiring convicted felons entail.
 
Old 01-19-2014, 03:43 PM
 
4 posts, read 19,840 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
There actually are some tax incentives for employers to hire people with criminal records, disabilities, etc. Sometimes though, that's just not enough to offset the liabilities that hiring convicted felons entail.
Just saying, yes there ARE some incentives, such as the tax credit, though in my experience searching for work, it is simply the SAME tax break that is given to employers for jobseekers who have been on any type of welfare assistance, and of course there are many people collecting assistance who don't have felony records either, so the employer most of the time bypasses the felon in order to have the same tax break for hiring a welfare recipient..so it just isn't of much help around here. The federal bonding program for felons only applies to people in the first year of release from prison, so after that it's useless also. Just sayin.
 
Old 01-19-2014, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
4,807 posts, read 6,129,148 times
Reputation: 3742
Quote:
Originally Posted by tw33tysatx View Post
I myself am at the total end of my rope. Long history of medical career, the only thing I know. History of abuse, PTSD, ADD and mental health disorders (bipolar depression). Still I worked hard for many years. I never believed that anyone who wasn't completely guilty could ever be convicted without solid proof. Of course now i know better, though too late...in fact it's all a little too little a little too late. Got set up by some coworker long ago, and although proof was never found to charge me with any type of drug charge, I apparently pissed off the wrong person somehow, and so they did what they threatened...and that was found a charge, "tampering with a government record" which is truly a stretch.
I'm very sympathetic to your situation since I deal with mental health issues myself. Still, I feel like there's a little something missing from your story. Maybe some details you'd rather not go into. It seems hard to believe that someone can get framed for something they didn't do, but I suppose it happens all the time.

I don't have any good suggestions about work, but have you ever contact DBSA or NAMI and attended one of their support groups? It might at least give you a place to talk about what you're going through.
 
Old 01-19-2014, 05:34 PM
 
4 posts, read 19,840 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Still, I feel like there's a little something missing from your story. Maybe some details you'd rather not go into
.

This is true...honestly there are too many details to even list, many of which i try to put out of my mind at this point, just useless to even try to consider anymore...essentially it ALL happened very fast and at the same time pretty much as I was going through a very tough and unbelievable custody battle with my psychotically sadistic mother who made tons of false allegations that enabled CPS to remove my youngest children permanently without much proof...of course now many years later there is now evidence that pops up that pretty much shows that what was done wasn't right, but unfortunately too many years too late to do anything about it...something that eats at me to this day ..at the same time, I honestly can't say I totally remember the specific "incident" in question regarding the felony...all I know for a fact is that I signed off on a narc count sheet with the medication aide who was going off duty from passing the pills, and since i was the charge nurse, I took a fall,but not before being accused of all sorts of things, and honestly what it boils down to is I don't truly know what happened...could have even been that a pill was "borrowed' for another resident that somehow didn't get replaced (not legal either but it happens all the time in long term care)..I honestly admit that I wasn't paying enough attention, my mind wasn't at all in my work at that time. Yes it all happened so fast and I was just so freaked out and overwhelmed by everything that I honestly don't even know all the details...really even what all evidence they supposedly had other than the copy of the signed sheet...I truly don't. I see all the time nurses who have gotten caught red handed stealing drugs (which wasn't at all what I did) and wind up getting second chances per the nursing board...and less time. I guess maybe I might have pissed them off when I declined to enter a drug rehab program that I didn't ever need (never had any drug/alcohol problem) so I dunno really...if I had went ahead and done it even though I didn't need it would they have let me keep my license? Never had any trouble before or after so I guess I had hoped it would be something more like probation, or a misdemeanor or something, but not...I don't honestly go into all that simply because things as they happened were just so crazy that most people will look at me as if i'm completely unbelievable....so I just try not to go into it.

as far as going to the groups, no not really. At this point, I don't know whether or not i'd even be interested in going either...just feel like anymore, it doesn't help to talk about it anymore...doesn't make me feel better, doesn't make it better and doesn't change the situation any. I've honestly been told that I wasn't allowed to work a simple job answering phones, or typing data into a computer, so it just seems apparent that nobody is going to give me any real chance to get back up.

Last edited by tw33tysatx; 01-19-2014 at 06:03 PM..
 
Old 01-19-2014, 07:25 PM
 
914 posts, read 776,464 times
Reputation: 1069
Quote:
Originally Posted by zitsky View Post
I'm very sympathetic to your situation since I deal with mental health issues myself. Still, I feel like there's a little something missing from your story. Maybe some details you'd rather not go into. It seems hard to believe that someone can get framed for something they didn't do, but I suppose it happens all the time.

I don't have any good suggestions about work, but have you ever contact DBSA or NAMI and attended one of their support groups? It might at least give you a place to talk about what you're going through.
I don't find it difficult to believe at all.

I had a friend in Louisville, when I lived there, who almost got framed and fired for sexual harrassment. Basically, a few people did not like this person, and wanted her gone. They ganged up on a male co-worker, threatening him that they would file sexual harrassment against HIM....if he did not claim sexual harrassment against my friend.



So I can believe something like what the OP describes can definitely happen...if enough people in a powerful position decide they want to scroogie you, they probably can.

And OP...I am very sorry for what happened to you. You are a perfect example of why it is not fair, the way the system currently is. You were not really guilty of anything, yet you took a fall for something you didn't do...due to skillful maneuvering by people more cunning than you...and apparently inadequate incompetent legal counsel.

And many people get pressured into a plea bargain for something they did not do - by being threatened with the prospect of a much harsher punishment. Those people end up with a record, even if they never did anything - yet if you go to trial and fail to prove your innocence...you end up with a longer sentence.

And don't give me shyt about "innocent until proven guilty." I've served on juries. Most people on juries want to just go home, and would sooner convict a stranger and not give a shyt, because jury duty is inconvenient to them. In principle, and by law, you might be innocent until proven guilty, but all too often, in actual practice, you are guilty unless you can prove yourself innocent.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top