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Old 01-21-2014, 06:08 AM
 
Location: Florida
4,104 posts, read 3,286,081 times
Reputation: 9936

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Quote:
Originally Posted by steven r. View Post
I used to work in a big corporate automotive group and it was horrible. I left that environment to go with an independent and in most of the skilled trades there are still smaller companies that will treat you better then the bigger auto groups and national service chains will. The mentality has become profit over people and to a certain point I understand the need to be profitable as all companies want continued success.

The problem is it takes people to make the companies function, people to produce the product or service. In the auto service industry most management that you find in the corporate automotive groups wouldn't know how to change an oil filter. They're hired to manage a business they know very little about other then how to drive profit, ethical or otherwise. Most have degrees and are basically bean counters, they have very little technical ability.

If you want to read an interesting book about industry, check out Car Guys vs. Bean Counters by Bob Lutz. In his book he explains how General Motors shifted away from quality cars because the bean counters found numerous ways to save money which in turn led General Motors to make a lot of junk cars. The American consumer lost faith in American Automobiles and started to by Japanese. General Motors is the reason they had to be bailed out.

Some industries don't need top heavy management, some industries are best left to experts on the product, how they work, and those trained to service and repair when they malfunction. The automotive industry is one of those industries.
Careful when you say bean counters have done this. Bean counters=accountants=my world. Accountants dont influence management, we report. FINANCE people manipulate management. To be specific its usually the polished Harvard MBA's that get into managements head and come up with great ideas to save money and grow. For instance, cut R&D and put the money into marketing!....= Harvard MBA.
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:33 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
33,530 posts, read 24,393,900 times
Reputation: 45287
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian571 View Post
My post wasn't in response to yours, but I agree. Nowadays, you have to take what you can get and see where it takes you. Having a degree in something doesn't guarantee entry into that field any longer. If anything good can come out of this, I hope it's that we stop pushing everyone onto a single path and let kids know there are good career paths that don't require taking out tens of thousands of dollars in loans to get a degree from a 4 year college.

I can't rep you again but AMEN AND AMEN.
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
33,530 posts, read 24,393,900 times
Reputation: 45287
Quote:
Originally Posted by panderson1988 View Post
I wish I can figure out what $8.50 in 1990 US dollars equates to today as $8.50 in some states like Illinois is minimum wage nowadays, and over a half of day on $8.50 would just cover gas as it's $3.60 a gallon in the Chicago area. I do think we have an issue with the income equality, and I will say I don't know if a minimum wage increase will fix all the problems as it seems like basic utilities have risen a lot recently too. I was looking over my electric bill, and I see for the same usage in months past now cost another $5. Little stuff like a few dollars more here and there add up quickly.
Please keep in mind that inflation hurts ALL of us - including those of us who are in our 40s, 50s and beyond.
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
33,530 posts, read 24,393,900 times
Reputation: 45287
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgb123 View Post
I took a similiar path, not military -- but I majored in a liberal arts field, yet learned a technical skill that could be applied in IT. This is why I had to do so much learning after school, my degree was a foot in the door -- yet I understood that when I graduated in 2002 at 26.

To answer the other poster about gen x vs. gen y and calling them whiners this is the difference I see. I was in college when 911 happened, it was terrifying and we DID lose opportunities because of it, in fact I lost my paid internship I was promised after graduation as they lost their budget along with everyone else. It was TOUGH to get a foot in, in 2002 even with a degree, even an internship with no benefits. And my parents (non college educated) gave me a VERY hard time about it though I had no control of the situation.

Things were not much better for those of us in the Gen X that graduated a bit earlier than the current Gen Y's. In fact worse in a lot of ways especially if we had older parents that had no sympathy for our choice to go to college.

I had to (try to) convince my mother it made sense for me to go to college as there was no opportunity for me as a woman if I didn't....my brothers could work in the trades or be firemen, etc. Much harder for a woman to work in the trades....options otherwise were marriage or waitressing, which of course my parents thought was a perfectly fine path.

The big difference I see between x and y generations are simply the parents and the attitudes. My generation was still dealing with a much tougher older generation that had different expectations of us and different levels of support....and we witnessed 911 too! In fact 911 is one of the reasons I went into the career that I did.
You bring up a good point, along the lines of what I said in the above post - just as inflation negatively impacts ALL of us, regardless of age, so did 9/11. Heck, my BBer husband was in SAUDI ARABIA on 9/11 and if you think that wasn't a bit of a freak out session, your head is in the sand!

The serious ramifications of 9/11 were felt for years economically - in fact we're still feeling them. Some of us late BBers who were just really getting our careers going hit a major brick wall when that whole economic down spiral hit. 9/11 didn't just shape Gen y's future - all of us had a future then and still do. Life doesn't end at age 40 for most people, and retirement/fixed incomes/age discrimination are just as serious economic issues as the struggles of any other generation. Pain is pain is pain.
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Old 01-21-2014, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
3,296 posts, read 4,550,806 times
Reputation: 2708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kineticity View Post
Who's talking about the 1960s? A college graduate now isn't that much more common than 20 or 30 years ago. I graduated in the 80s and nobody back then talked about recent graduates having to take internships to gain experience. Experience was what you got on the job, along with your paycheck. (Besides which, most internships are only open to people who are actually students.)

There used to be an old joke about how the ideal employee was 21 years old with 30 years of experience and willing to work for a dollar an hour. Back then it was understood to be a joke, but these days an awful lot of companies seem to be taking it literally, and the more people are willing to play along the worse things are going to get for everyone.
Internships were relatively new in the 1980's but not unheard of. This article from Forbes is interesting.

I think some people have short memories. The demand for too much experience is a problem that many generations of people have suffered. Do you folks really think that in the 1920's everyone just walked into an office and got a job, just by asking for it? I'm sure that some did if they had the energy to pound the pavement all day. But was that common? Absolutely not.

I had it pretty rough after graduating in the 1990's. The early to mid nineties were not a paradise. My first job was a 90 minute commute each way from my apartment. I was glad to have that job and I worked as hard as I could and learned as much as I could. Then in 1995 I moved to Silicon Valley. It wasn't a paradise like some Gen Y's seem to think. I had to find temp jobs, contract jobs etc before I found a good IT job. Some companies I worked at I was doing 50-60 hour weeks or more. Sure I did OK eventually but I had to work for it. I didn't get the big bucks right away.

Gen Y still seems to expect too much. They want bigger salaries walking in the door, more authority, and they want to be the boss. Everyone else is incompetent and should be fired in their opinion. Maybe it's this arrogance that keeps them from climbing the ladder. Apparently bad management was never a problem in the 1990's, 1980's, 1970's or 1960's. Everything back then was a paradise and we all made $100,000 a year and sat around singing and holding hands.
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Old 01-21-2014, 08:33 AM
 
50 posts, read 51,530 times
Reputation: 33
While I agree that maybe some Gen Y kids are lazy, I have to say that we are not *all* like that. I made my mistakes when I was first in the working world, such as not being too careful about my social media posts and sitting around in the office for long periods of time doing nothing when I could've been trying harder to ask for more work. (Although my bosses and coworkers kept telling me oh no I don't need any help, but I digress.) But I certainly didn't expect a job in management right after graduation or a high salary. In fact, I took a job in a call center, which was a crappy, controlling work environment, because my family insisted that I get a job, even if it wasn't in my field. I have lived at home since graduation due to a tough couple of years of layoffs, one firing and low pay, and I have always paid my parents a set amount of rent money and helped around the house.

I work in my degree area now, but I would like to get into a more competitive industry where tons of free work is pretty much mandatory to even be considered for a job. (I am trying to break into professional sports on the business side.) I am applying for these internships and I am either not getting called back or the interview seems to go well and I never hear from the company again. (I apply to the ones that do not strictly say "college students only" or "recent graduates only.") I write for free while balancing my full-time job, but it seems like all the recognition goes to the same few writers no matter what kind of article I put together. One such writing position would not pay me because I didn't get enough traffic to my articles (!!). I am trying to volunteer at sporting events, but my inquiries about doing so are often not returned.

Sure I don't doubt that there are entitled Gen Y-ers. I know one. He thinks he is just oh so talented and amazing and someone should be privileged to hire one. But don't knock all of us. Some of us are genuinely trying to make it and not getting anywhere because employers don't want to give us the time of day, or we are considered underqualified or overqualified or what have you. I have been a close candidate/runner-up for some positions I have applied to, only to find that a local candidate or someone with more specific experience was chosen. (Mind you, those companies chose to interview me knowing exactly what my resume said, then they're complaining I don't have experience in such and such.) Believe me, I'd love to be in my chosen field and am willing to intern/volunteer, but it seems like some employers would rather not have me around and would rather give the internship to the college student who may or may not work hard and be the best choice.
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Old 01-21-2014, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
453 posts, read 435,009 times
Reputation: 661
I never said internships didn't exist in the Eighties; I said most people didn't need one, and no one I know in my cohort was expected to intern after graduation. It simply was not the widespread thing it is today, and combined with other factors it looks like a somewhat reasonable original idea that's been turned into something far more beneficial to the employer than to the interns themselves. It's beginning to look exploitive now, when it wasn't initially.
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Old 01-21-2014, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Foster, TX
847 posts, read 951,235 times
Reputation: 838
Someone may have posted this already, but a fairly insightful read into Gen-Y entitlement. For what it's worth, I too am a Gen Y / Millennial. And I see this every day in my peers.

Why Generation Y Yuppies Are Unhappy | Wait But Why
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Old 01-21-2014, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
3,296 posts, read 4,550,806 times
Reputation: 2708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kineticity View Post
I never said internships didn't exist in the Eighties; I said most people didn't need one, and no one I know in my cohort was expected to intern after graduation. It simply was not the widespread thing it is today, and combined with other factors it looks like a somewhat reasonable original idea that's been turned into something far more beneficial to the employer than to the interns themselves. It's beginning to look exploitive now, when it wasn't initially.
I didn't do an internship in grad school in 2006-2008. Now on the other hand, I know of one very smart woman who interned at Chevron and is still there 5 years later, climbing the ladder. I was at a school that had a Sports Business program. I'd have to say at least 50% of those people interning were just helping the employer and not getting much out of it. When I watch their LinkedIn profiles it's clear that some of them took a while to find a good permanent position.

I was the "old man" in graduate school at age 40 (Gen X). I believe most of my classmates were about 22-30, probably Gen Y. Out of a graduate class of 45, I'd say that most were very hard working and only 2-3 were goofing off. So I do believe Gen Y can be successful. They just have higher expectations going into a company.
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Old 01-21-2014, 09:44 AM
 
318 posts, read 271,638 times
Reputation: 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by NTexas2010 View Post
Someone may have posted this already, but a fairly insightful read into Gen-Y entitlement. For what it's worth, I too am a Gen Y / Millennial. And I see this every day in my peers.

Why Generation Y Yuppies Are Unhappy | Wait But Why
It has been a while since I've seen this article, and I like how it attacks various view points. I want to mention the fight between expectations and reality. I have seen too many times people's expectations are not on par with reality. I've seen my generation, Gen Y, and sometimes myself having high expectations with a job and workplace. And it's a mistake on our part thinking that every job will be perfect and great when it won't be. Every job has baggage and issues, that said I think it's not unreasonable to pursue something you have passion for. The people who seem to be successful from creating a great company to doing a great job on the bottom floor seem to have some enjoyment in their work. That's my problem with posts like we should just be grateful to have a job and be robots in the workforce.

I've seen a lot of Gen Xs on here call us entitled and whiny for wanting a good job. Is that too much to ask for? A job that pays decent to help me get by, enjoy a few luxuries like eating out once a while, and I deprive some enjoyment from my work. Apparently I'm entitled to think that way, and personally I think it's why so many people feel disengage and have low morale at work. I know it's a job and not every job is great, but people are so depressing with this attitude that you should just accept work as work. I refuse to as work is a major part of our lives. Think about it, about 40 years of our life is dedicated to work. I don't expect to be the next Steve Jobs and have a super tech house like Bill Gates, but I expect to find a job and a career path I want to be on. That doesn't seem unreasonable, and I understand if you need to work your way up the path.

That said people's expectations in the work place have gone beyond common sense and logic. Expecting recent college grads to have several years of experience and have done the same exact job elsewhere is ludicrous. The problem I see with hiring is first way too many BS loops to jump through from filling out personality tests, discussing in detail three adjectives to describe yourself, to even having them conduct a credit check on me. How does my credit rating and my Chase card affect my work? It doesn't, and then I keep hearing from HR, managers, and Gen X people that I should accept low pay or unpaid work to gain experience. If it was a year or less like a college internship, then I understand, but asking 3 to 5 years of that kind of work to recent grads is impossible. Let me add one more thing, a lot of companies have cut internships when most recent Gen Ys were in college. I was unable to get an internship in college as I attended school from 2007 to 2011. That was in the middle of the financial crisis when companies were laying off thousands of people and cutting training and internship programs.

Finally seeing companies focusing more on people who can do the job on day 1 without training and supervision is ridiculous. We don't need people holding our hands like some people make it out to be, but we expect some reasonable supervision and training. How can you expect people 25 and younger to have SQL, SPSS, Oracle, Google Analytics certification out of college? The answer is you can't as most internships don't give you much or any exposure as your time is too short, and in college there is no way a curriculum can cover 10 different pieces of software including customized software your company uses. What is sad is people don't train anymore. Instead I see more complaining by mid level managers how people are struggling with the job when they don't anything. They seem to be more distant than ever, don't train people or help them out with their issues, and basically just delegate work and blame them for their problems and not look at the system itself. That is my biggest beef is how leaders and managers are quickly to blame the individual, but not look at the system as a whole when you see so many issues and turnover on the ground level.
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