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I keep saying it but it's true - every generation blames the one before. The reality is that social upheaval and societal trends are decades and several generations in the making. Every generation makes some mistakes and has some crowning achievements. Take for instance "the greatest generation" - the WW2 generation. Wonderful bunch in so many ways, but...segregation, terrible women's rights issues, often abusive homes, alll sorts of family dysfunctions that were not addressed...and those are just a few things that were not so great about even that brave, stoic generation of people.
Like my grandmother used to say, "I lived in the good ol' days - believe me, they weren't all that good." Every generation can waste time pointing the finger backwards and blaming others - my gosh, what do younger people think BBers were revolting against in the 1960s and 1970s? Look at the horrible issues that were at play "thanks to our parents." The reality is, these issues weren't just a matter of "our parents' faults."
Being a Boomer was actually pretty plush. I'd rather have been a Boomer than War Gen or anything after us.
At least we grew up with the dream that we could fix the world. We were wrong...but being young with a big dream is more fun than being young without one.
As I said, enrollments increased dramatically in the 60s. These were the years the Boomers began entering college, propelled by the idea first engendered by the GI Bill of the 40s that "everyone can get a degree." Also propelled by the desire to avoid the draft.
But for the Boomers on to today, college graduation percentages have not varied much. The differences are:
The economy began collapsing in the 70s as the Boomers were getting our jobs. But a bull elephant takes time to die, so it didn't affect us much.
As I've mentioned, Boomers entered the corporate world while there was still a corporate philosophy of "train them and keep them." That philosophy has changed. Gen Y kids were taught by their Boomer parents "get good grades, get a degree, get a good job, get trained in it and advance in it."
Then they discover that the rules have changed (and to a great extent, Boomers who aren't right now experiencing the situation with their children don't even realize it yet).
yes I think that is very true. This is true of my parents too, particularly my mother though who never worked, she always blamed me for the struggle I had after graduation while my dad had a better understanding of what was happening. She didn't understand why I couldn't just get a full time good paying job straight after graduation and why it made sense even to intern (paid, but no benefits) and move around for jobs to gain experience. Caused a big rift between us actually but now I'm doing better salary wise than all of my brothers and sister, and more than my dad every made.
I certainly hope that remains the case. I don't take it for granted and know that even though it was a tough climb for me, I could end up back at the bottom. It is a scary time, I'd say even especially if you are earning good money right now, I feel a distinct pressure to continuously prove myself so as to keep my footing.
Do you actually KNOW anyone who "offshored many good American manufacturing jobs" because I certainly don't..
That one I will take issue with though I know it was directed at someone else
No, I don't know know them personally or socially but I do know who some of them are. I live in the Rust Belt and see the results all around me in the form of abandoned factories whose parent companies still exist but now have most of their manufacturing done overseas.
Last edited by Kineticity; 01-21-2014 at 01:35 PM..
BTW, according to federal law, if an intern is doing "basically, an entry-level job. You're doing professional work for the company," he'd better be a paid intern. An unpaid intern is not, by law, to be doing any work that actually results in a benefit to the company--ie, no "real" work."
Yes, that's right; an unpaid intern should be doing only learning "make work." If it's real work, the law requires him to be paid.
Sounds like some corporate managers should be doing orange-suited perp walks.
Apprentices in the trades get paid.
Let me clarify what I'm talking about with internships. I can really only speak about my field but I think it goes for many fields today.
I have never done an unpaid internship, but if I could have and didn't need the money I probably would have and think people should definitley do this if they can and have no other options to gain experience, and yes preferably during school.
In the articles we have been reading -- a problem with Geny is that they come out of school with NO EXPEREINCE at all. Most of Gen X worked at some point and their parents didn't tell them to just focus on school -- this is not my opinion but things I've been reading. It certainly is true for me.
I graduated in 6 years -- I spent 6 months travelling Europe, the previous 6 months temping at an office making money and learning office skills for around $12 an hour. Numerous employers have told me how rare it is for kids to come out of college with OFFICE SKILLS. I knew this was important and kept it up.
When I deicded to go to school more full time I still needed to work. I went through my school to find opoortunities and I applied for and was accepted into (after tough interviews) an internship for 20, paid hours a week at a federal agency. This was not easy, and it was hard to keep up with but I did it during school even with a 50 mile commute. This was 2 years before I even graduated. I was in some ways lucky to get this internship but I had to go looking for it, it in no way fell in my lap and the same program still exists. If I had been financially well off like many students, I would have done something like this for free and you can get a lot of stuff like this if you are willing to do it for free.
Fast forward to my senior year I was in a program that REQUIRED an internship as part of the senior year...and you did the summer before or after graduation, prior to getting your real diploma and you got a grade for it. I had an extremley old school teacher and Thank God for him!
We still had to find our own internships, go and set up our own interviews, and they could be paid or unpaid, we had to keep a journal during this experience and report back to him. He helped us with networking to find the internship, guided us on how to interview etc, but it was all on us to find and get an internship. We all had to interview at at least 3 places and keep going until we found an internship.
In my class I had the easiest time since I was older and already had experience. I found a paid internship quickly ($10 an hour, no benefits). I also started to build a network which is important to me to this day.
Once heading for graduation, I found another internship. I WANTED an internship (And in my field sometimes they are called internship, sometimes "part time" work, sometimes its just hourly work with no benefits -- its basically an entry level job but no expectation of long term, you can gain experience and they get to test you as a full time employee or just get good help).
I wasn't ready yet to sign on for years, I wanted to see how business was done at several places before committing to one place, I wanted experience in a lot of projects. I Didn't want to be seen as job hopper and felt it more ethical to take term experiences vs. full time work -- it was also much easier to get these jobs and I knew I Was gaining the experience that I needed without having to commit yet. I didn't get a full time entry level job until about one year after I graduated. And I was snapped up, relocated with bonus, got a security clearance, etc.
I may have taken a less familiar path than some people understand, but I have fared better than most of my colleagues. But I'm routinely appaulled by the entitlement of many that I've worked with my age and younger.
If you don't take the time to make yourself valuable what can you expect? Mediocrity for mediocrity.
the unjust part is ...well, life is unjust. Some people will go to the top who don't belong there, and some people will do everything right and end up not getting very far.
I am doing well but still feel I could be doing better. Part of it, as you get higher is patience...and just not giving up when things at work really suck. the opportunities will come and the job hopping needs to be at a minimum as you get higher up, and you have to be more patient for the opportunities to open up, even if you feel you are more qualified than your bosses at this point.
As another said....yes, we the Genx'ers wish incomes were higher too!!! We are all dealing with it and for a long time...
That one I will take issue with though I know it says directed at someone else
No, I don't know know them personally or socially but I do know who some of them are. I live in the Rust Belt and see the results all around me in the form of abandoned factories whose parent companies still exist but now have most of their manufacturing done overseas.
my dad was (and still does some part time work as) a tool and die maker.....yes absolutley, story of his life. he's been through many plant/company closings due to competition with china.
As I said, enrollments increased dramatically in the 60s. These were the years the Boomers began entering college, propelled by the idea first engendered by the GI Bill of the 40s that "everyone can get a degree." Also propelled by the desire to avoid the draft.
But for the Boomers on to today, college graduation percentages have not varied much. The differences are:
The economy began collapsing in the 70s as the Boomers were getting our jobs. But a bull elephant takes time to die, so it didn't affect us much.
As I've mentioned, Boomers entered the corporate world while there was still a corporate philosophy of "train them and keep them." That philosophy has changed. Gen Y kids were taught by their Boomer parents "get good grades, get a degree, get a good job, get trained in it and advance in it."
Then they discover that the rules have changed (and to a great extent, Boomers who aren't right now experiencing the situation with their children don't even realize it yet).
Great post. I can't tell you how many times the parents have said "Well why don't you just apply to something entry level with company X, they will hire you!", without realizing that even the entry level is very selective. There is still on the job training, the thing is now most companies are very selective in hiring who to train. Today it is more - you had better graduate with a degree in A,B,C and if you did not, I am sorry we will not hire/train you.
For most people the new start now are internships paid and or unpaid and yes I know there is a bit of brouhaha over whether an unpaid internship is legal, but if you need experience and you can't get the entry level job or the paid internship, what choice do you have but to go unpaid?
Everybody has to start somewhere but where as the bottom used to be an entry level work that did not require 2-3 years experience doing X and yes you better have that experience (not optional), the bottom now are internships. And internships are fine, nothing wrong with starting there-if not already generation Y needs to be aware that internships (most likely unpaid) are the new entry level. Do not expect that great entry level paid office gig unless you majored in A,B,C and or have that inside connection
I also want to add about internships- ideally they should be done whilst in school-ideally. However if you graduated already and for whatever reason did not intern-it may be a bit harder to get started unless you invent time travel and or go back to school. There are internships out there that DO NOT require you to be a current student or a recent grad though granted you will probably have an easier time finding internships that require you to be a current student. Hit up the internships that do not require you to be in school, heck apply to the internships that require you to be a student, explain your situation, perhaps they will bend a bit and let you intern anyway
Last edited by dazeddude8; 01-21-2014 at 01:42 PM..
Reason: more to add
In my experience and in my field there are FAR MORE internships now than ever. They are called internships, part time, hourly, etc. This is very common in my field and most of them actually prefer you to even have experience or be available more than 20 hours.
It's funny because I did another internship after that full time job, which was really not an internship they just called it that to avoid paying benefits (and not taking advantage - they honestly didn't have the budget and were trying to find a good person the best way that they could) well I eventually turned that job into a full time job, but it eventually went back to part time/internship just due to their budgets.
I checked recently and the guy peforming the "internship" is a very successful, well known, in the field for 20 years guy who just happens to now be going back for his PhD.
It's an interesting job and he could see that as well as I did. I worked there during my Master's.
The point is, there are more "internships" now than ever I see them posted all the time on my industry sites. Some of them are taking advantage because they can now, but for many they are just as burnt by today's budgets and all that they can afford now.
This is naturally the stepping stone the younger set need to be starting at.
Gen Y wants instant everything and in life there is no instant success or quick jump to the top of the food chain.
All the complaints listed by Gen Yers such as the demands made by the Occupation protests reflects a desire for instant gratification, guarantees, and equal share of riches. This is communism not capitalism.
I once worked for a $300mil CEO and he told me, if you work hard and stay focused you will never be poor.
Most Gen Yers don't work hard and can't stay focus. Laziness guarantees failure in anything.
What I see from where I am is a distinct move away from community colleges, votech schools, trade schools, etc. I see more and more kids expecting to live in a dorm or an apartment, and not work much, if at all, while they're in college, and I also see the expectation of five or six or MORE years of college - sort of an extended adolescence.
Take this for example - from the University of Texas in Tyler. At first glance it looks quite daunting - my gosh, the cost for a year is over $22,000!!! But when you look closely at this, HALF that cost is living in a dorm or apartment. The actual cost of tuition, books and fees is under $9000 a year (two semesters per year). My gosh, that's certainly do-able, especially if parents are kicking in a place to live, or paying for the tuition fully, or the students and parents splitting the costs.
Total cost for tuition, books and fees for a bachelor's degree from UTT is under $40,000 - IF you don't qualify for any financial aid, grants, etc. But many students, and parents, saddle up with additional expenses - a late model vehicle, apartments, gadgets galore, clothing, eating out, partying...living a middle class life at a time in life when one can most "afford" to be poor. No kids, no house payment, no spouse, all sorts of resources at school at one's fingertips...and yet the kids I know expect to be driving a very nice vehicle, dressing well, living in nice apartments, with all the cushy things that their parents waited for till well into their thirties...or beyond. Or STILL don't have!
It defies logic.
I really wish I knew some poor, noble students who were really roughing it - I'm sure they're out there but I just haven't run across many of them lately.
By the way, I'm not blaming the students any more than I'm blaming the parents. SOMEONE allowed these expectations. But they're unrealistic and unsustainable expectations in my opinion.
My stepson was surprised when his dad gave him the figure he was prepared to "donate to the cause" for the next four years. My husband accompanied this figure with this phrase - "I am giving you one of the best gifts I can give you in the long run - I'm preparing for my own retirement and old age so you don't have to be burdened by this load twenty years from now." Why should FOUR middle aged adults work full time so that a 22 year old man can go to school half a day, live in a luxury apartment complex, and drive a nicer car than any of the adults are driving?
I agree with everything you said.
College does not have to be a delayed adulthood. Every college student is responsible for himself, chooses what he wants to get out of college. But certainly the university is an environment where it's very easy to fall into bad habits.
With the internet being such a potential distraction, students take at least twice as long to study and complete assignments. Not to mention the fact that when students get stuck on a homework problem, they can usually find a solution by Googling the problem.
Almost every student is having their room and board paid for by their parents or paid as a loan from the government. So it's easy to view any money they make during that time as disposable income. You work 12 hours per week at a coffee stand on campus, and that's enough money to go out to Chipotle Mexican Grill every night of the week and go bar hopping on Tuesday and Friday night.
In addition, I've noticed that parents and other older adults like to feed the egos of college students. You say you're a college student and older people make some joke about how you're sleep-deprived and living off Cup-Of-Noodles because you're so broke and so busy studying, and they give you affirmation that you're a smart person who is going to have so many opportunities when he graduates. I would almost feel guilty when people said stuff like that, because I knew I was just cruising through college, wasting money not having any idea what I wanted to do when I graduated.
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I think 56 is still firmly in middle age.)
