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Once your 40th birthday comes, your company will be looking to replace YOU with someone at least 5 years younger, especially in HR. HR is a female dominated field for a REASON.
So, all this helpful "advice" you're giving the board will become handy when it's YOUR time to go looking for a job.
Aren't you a woman, too? If so, why would you be so delighted at the notion that women may be considered expendable and made redundant after a certain age?
I don't understand the hostility in this thread. This woman didn't make the rules, she's just saying "this is how the company I work for hires people" so people can put their best foot forward when applying.
Aren't you a woman, too? If so, why would you be so delighted at the notion that women may be considered expendable and made redundant after a certain age?
I don't understand the hostility in this thread. This woman didn't make the rules, she's just saying "this is how the company I work for hires people" so people can put their best foot forward when applying.
Well, some people on here are hostile toward the OP not because they think she makes up the rules but because they see her as a collaborator. It's much the same way as how the French people saw the nazi collaborators during and right after WW2.
We are all aware of the prejudice against the long-term unemployed and people over 40 that are rampant in the business world. And the OP is the perfect personification of this heartless world.
Aren't you a woman, too? If so, why would you be so delighted at the notion that women may be considered expendable and made redundant after a certain age?
I'm not. In her original post, she said if you're 50 and over, then you can "forget about it".
I was letting HER know that when she hits 40 that "plans" will be made to put someone younger in her place. Yeah, they might let her get to 41 or maybe 42, but they want young and "cutesy" in HR.
"Cutesy" looks ridiculous on someone in her 40s.
Last edited by marilyn220; 02-09-2014 at 04:36 PM..
This is a fair assessment. You don't have to like every company out there for any number of reasons. It's really simple. If you don't like the way a company does something, don't apply there. Move on.
I went car shopping a few weeks ago. I tried one particular car and the seats were uncomfortable and the engine noise was audible in the cabin. I chose to move on. That's the beauty of having choice. There are so many employers that want you.
True--in this economy you are not supposed to be "choosy," but at the law firm I work for, the HR director is basically viewed as a "flunky." She has no power AT ALL. All she does is repeat what the Administrator tells her, and the Administrator says what the attorneys (partners) tell him to say. Nobody has any respect for either of them as they basically do as they are told even when it is a ridiculous policy. Yet they keep coming up with all kinds of "corporate human resources" procedures like taking tests to justify your salary (even if you have worked there for 20 years). Most of these slide shows, tests, etc. are used to justify the existence of the "HR Department." This HR woman at the firm actually has staff employees help her interview potential employees, because she apparently does not trust her own judgment.
Well, some people on here are hostile toward the OP not because they think she makes up the rules but because they see her as a collaborator. It's much the same way as how the French people saw the nazi collaborators during and right after WW2.
We are all aware of the prejudice against the long-term unemployed and people over 40 that are rampant in the business world. And the OP is the perfect personification of this heartless world.
That's ridiculous. That's like saying nurses are collaborators because the hospital discriminates against the uninsured. If people are so angry, they should write to the 1%, who DO make the rules, yet everyone seems to defend, putting all their anger and hostility to others who are just "cogs in
the wheel" as most of us are rather than the corporations who make these decisions. I think it's helpful to know what we're up against, I don't see how shooting the messenger helps anyone.
I'm not. In her original post, she said if you're 50 and over, then you can "forget about it".
I was letting HER know that when she hits 40 that "plans" will be made to put someone younger in her place. Yeah, they might let her get to 41 or maybe 42, but they want young and "cutesy" in HR.
My first post and I have two spelling issues and now I will never hear the end of it!
Some more advice:
1) Pick up cues from the recruiter or hiring manager when you do that long walk from the conference room to the location of your interview regarding small talk. So many candidates are so nervous that they don't say anything when we try to make small talk to them. They may have all their talking points figured out for technical questions but they can't carry on a conversation without using their Smartphone.
2) Have 5-6 talking points ready for the interview. These are things you want to bring up regardless of the actual questions they ask you.
3) Have 5-6 questions ready in case they ask you if you have any questions. So many candidates we interview don't have any questions which makes them look really bad. But don't ask questions about things that you could have figured out yourself.
4) If you are over 50 years old, good luck. Employers generally don't want you unless you have really unique skills, talents or education, or are on the senior management track. If you do get an interview don't use phrases, like: "in my day," "that is the way I have always done it" "people in my generation," "with me, what you see is what you get." and "I have XXX years of experience."
5) Don't assume that anyone read your cover letter where you explained your situation. In most cases cover letters are not read at all or they are just scanned.
6) Considering your resume is only going to get 10 seconds, have friends look at it and see what they can tell about you scanning it for ten seconds and adjust it's layout if they can't learn much in that period of time.
It is amazing that when someone in a position to know, tries to pass on their knowledge to those looking for work, that they do not listen to the advice.
They get angry, is he/she does not tell them what they want to hear.
They are without work, or wanting to move up in the world, but will not take an insiders advice on how the real world works from the employers side. They are not accepting the fact, that they may be doing something wrong when they are looking for work.
They think they are an exception to the rule, and rules the company uses to hire people should not apply to them when they are applying for work.
Every company of any size, develops a plan to hire employees that works for them. And most companies will be working with much the same plans, as over the years, it has proven to work for them.
If it works well for them, and they can attract and keep a decent work force with minimum loss of employees and can replace the lost employees with a good quality replacement, why change their plan of operation. They have long ago, learned if they keep making changes in the plan, that there are problems that spring up, and they will hire a few people that do not work out and costs the company money to replace them.
This is a good example, of how people are out of work, and do not listen to an insider that can help them.
OP said: 1) Pick up cues from the recruiter or hiring manager when you do that long walk from the conference room to the location of your interview regarding small talk. So many candidates are so nervous that they don't say anything when we try to make small talk to them. They may have all their talking points figured out for technical questions but they can't carry on a conversation without using their Smartphone.
The response from a reader: Why? So you can throw trick questions at them?
OP said: 2) Have 5-6 talking points ready for the interview. These are things you want to bring up regardless of the actual questions they ask you.
Readers response: Why?? All most people care about is the salary and if they're going to get a shi$$y boss.
This is the same attitude by so many of the young people on this tread, unemployed, and do not understand what the OP is saying. This attitude, is what is costing them jobs. Simply talking to the person off the record, so they can see a little of your personality, and eagerness to work there, the responder above, thinks is just a trick to keep from hiring them. If you want the job, show you are a friendly easy to talk to person, as that type of person is what they are looking for.
And telling them to do some research on the company, and to ask a few questions to show their real interest in the job, is too much as all the responder wants is to know how much the pay is. They show right there, they are not really interested in the job, but only want a pay check. Who wants to hire someone like this. Either show an interest in the company and the job, showing you really want to work for the company, or forget getting the job. There is no need to know how much the pay is, as you will never be paid by them.
When you are applying for a job, you are there to show the company representative that you are really interested in working for the company. That you are a nice person that is pleasant to be around, so you will fit in with the other employees. That you have a real interest in knowing more about the company, and the job you are applying for.
The responder above, will go into the reject pile every time. I know as back in my corporate days, I interviewed a lot of people, and people like him/her were automatically rejected.
You are there to sell the company on you, and why you are the best applicant and they should hire you. If you don't make the sale, you will not get the job.
Listen to the OP, and take the advice he/she is passing on to you. It is the real world of employment, and advice that you should listen to. If you are not willing to do what she/he is saying you are not going to get a lot of good jobs.
I am sorry so many of you don't like my advice to the job seekers. Or that so many of you don't like many of the other HR folks that you work with. I am just trying to pass on my wisdom working with thousands of candidates, and hundreds of managers who I work with overseeing the recruitment process.
Some additional comments:
Yes, there are jobs out there for the long term unemployed but just not at the most prestigious companies, like the one I work in the Twin Cities (In Minnesota). We are overrun by applicants and can pick and chose the best and the brightest. Years ago we tried a number of long term unemployed thinking we would help society, what a terrible mistake.
I attend a monthly group of other Human Resources Professionals who are responsible for recruiting and staffing and the issue of the long term unemployed comes up often. In general we all agree, the long term unemployed are jobless for a reason. They are only marketable to very small fly by night business where they can get a fresh start or maybe through a temp agency.
Lots of you did a very poor job at attacking Human Resources. Interesting comments but basically BS. The reason HR is involved in the staffing and recruitment process is that most managers don't know how to recruit, interview, test and select good candidates. Most managers need us because they are technical people, not people-people and don't know how to identify and attract and retain talent. All they are good for is asking technical questions. We do the rest.
I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt here. I, personally, have good feelings about HR departments, which I have written about here before. I once worked for a Fortune 100 company (where I had been employed for more than a decade). A manager tried to fire me for very personal reasons that had nothing to do with my work. The HR department went to bat for me. They believed me because of my long-term evaluations, and not the much-higher-level manager who had it out for me for an incredibly petty reason. I will appreciate until the day I die that I got a better position and one of my best managers ever out of that humiliating experience. That said, this reply that you've posted sent you right off my list of people I will support.
The long-term unemployed "are only marketable to very small fly by night business where they can get a fresh start or maybe through a temp agency"?? Seriously? Think about it: the long-term unemployed were short-term unemployed once. And it's distinctly possible that they were short-term unemployed during the time when virtually our entire nation was NOT HIRING. Anybody for anything. Because they were terrified by 9/11, the housing crisis, the unwillingness of banks to give loans, the war in Iraq that did not end when it was supposed to, and a new president some were not willing to give the benefit of the doubt. So ... what? Those people who lost their jobs at that particular moment in history are supposed to remain unemployed the rest of their lives because they weren't able to find a suitable landing place immediately after their company cutback ... declared bankruptcy ... was bought out ... was destroyed by rapacious venture capitalists ... or any of the myriad of reasons some perfectly loyal and good workers lose their jobs?
I taught a resume writing workshop for people on unemployment benefits for awhile recently. Of course there were some losers in the lot. But I was shocked and appalled at some of the stories I heard there. Perfectly employable, good people who had suitable jobs they did well and lost through no fault of their own. Who couldn't get an interview even with resumes that listed good grades, plenty of forward movement, increased earning, and those ACCOMPLISHMENTS that you insist on seeing.
I've lived in Southern Arizona for nearly nine years. You have NO IDEA how many businesses in this area have gone belly up in the time I've lived here. Hundreds. Not to mention a new-housing market that is only beginning to recover. That's in addition to public school districts that are closing schools, universities that are eliminating full-time jobs, local governments that are cutting back on programs and services, and government contractors that have lost federal contracts (which is practically everything except the defense industry). Who are the employees put on the street because of that downward spiral? A huge number of them are people who MOVED TO ARIZONA SPECIFICALLY TO GET WORK. When their employers in Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Western Pennsylvania, etc., etc., cut them loose.
How do you expect a bad economy to absorb all these people?Especially when you give them no chance if they "take too long" to land on their feet. Especially when you discriminate against anyone who is over 50?
And as for the "eliminating anyone who lives more than 30 miles away" ... that would make half the people in Southern Arizona unemployable. The vast majority of people I know drive more than half an hour to their jobs. And they are happy to do it. We're supposed to have a nation of freaking work-seeking nomads, yet you won't even ask someone from out of town if the are willing to talk to you at their own expense? That's lame to the nth degree.
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