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Old 03-11-2014, 04:48 AM
 
249 posts, read 423,958 times
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I know it's the convention to try for a 10% raise when changing jobs, and that these days the most reliable way to bump your salary upward is to switch employers every few years, but... how do you justify to yourself that the new employer, about whom you know very little, should pay you more than you're earning now?

I've spent years mastering everything that I have to do at my current job (which is in banking/finance), and also have solid relationships with all the companies that we do business with. If I were to change employers to do similar work to what I'm doing now, even if I might be able to create much more value for them in the future, in my first year I'm going to be far behind the curve, learning and adjusting. I couldn't possibly be worth more than I'm worth as a veteran in my job now.

If contracts worked a little differently, and you went from being paid X at your current job to being paid 0.8X as you learned the ropes at the new employer in your first year, followed by 1.1X in subsequent years, I might be able to understand it.

Obviously the current system seems to work for most people. I'd probably aim for a bump too, because there's really no better time to try and get one. But in the back of my mind, I'm thinking that I'm not really worth the money; at least not right after signing. How do you argue, and really believe deep inside, that this new company should pay you more than you're worth now? If an interviewer asked me what I think I should be paid, and I were forced to be 100% truthful (think Jim Carrey in "Liar, Liar"), I'd probably say something like, "Well, it'll take me some time to learn your system and get good at my job, so I'd say an appropriate salary would be about 20% less than what my co-workers are making, at least for the first six months."

Nobody ever says that, but are you thinking it?
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Old 03-11-2014, 04:51 AM
 
Location: Central Ohio
10,823 posts, read 14,900,285 times
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I don't justify it.

Even though I am an employee, at the end of the day I am my own private business, and if I have something they want they can pay whatever I can get.
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Old 03-11-2014, 05:58 AM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,346 posts, read 80,679,251 times
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I happen to think that staying with the same company and earning promotions is more effective. If you do eventually leave it looks better to have stayed longer, and you become vested in the retirement plan. In 5 years at my company I have had promotions with raises of 8% and 10%, about the same as in your plan but without having to go elsewhere.
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Old 03-11-2014, 06:50 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
13,520 posts, read 22,067,272 times
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I find it strange that you'd have to justify it to yourself that you deserve better.
Perhaps you need to have a better sense of self worth.
The hard part is to convince the potential employer of that. Lol
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Old 03-11-2014, 07:21 AM
 
Location: Chicago
3,339 posts, read 5,973,052 times
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Personally, I think it's partially to compensate for the risk inherent in changing jobs. After a few interviews you don't really know for sure if your new boss will be great to work for or a complete nightmare. Sure, you have to learn new systems and methods, but that takes extra effort compared to just doing what you already know. There's always a risk that the new company/position will be worse than what you left and in most cases you can't just go back to your old job.
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Old 03-11-2014, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Arizona
6,129 posts, read 7,965,998 times
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I'm not sure why this is even a question.

If I work for Company A for a number of years, and Company B is seeking someone with my talents and abilities, and they become interested in me, it is up to Company B to offer me an incentive in the form of a salary increase to make it worth my while to leave my current employer. Pretty simple in that basic scenario.

This, by the way, shoots a pretty large hole in the argument of those who keep insisting that a potential new employer has no business asking or knowing your salary is, or in verifying that information.

I'm sure we could argue that there are other possible circumstances, such as the case of someone who is unhappy where they are currently working, or someone unemployed, but the basic principle remains.
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Arizona
6,129 posts, read 7,965,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schermerhorn View Post
But in the back of my mind, I'm thinking that I'm not really worth the money; at least not right after signing. How do you argue, and really believe deep inside, that this new company should pay you more than you're worth now? If an interviewer asked me what I think I should be paid, and I were forced to be 100% truthful (think Jim Carrey in "Liar, Liar"), I'd probably say something like, "Well, it'll take me some time to learn your system and get good at my job, so I'd say an appropriate salary would be about 20% less than what my co-workers are making, at least for the first six months."

Nobody ever says that, but are you thinking it?
In word...No.
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:15 AM
 
Location: U.S.A., Earth
5,511 posts, read 4,458,944 times
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To feel more confident about proposing a rate, try to do some research online, or get word from someone in the know of either what the industry pays, or what folks in similar position get paid. In some places, you're kind of hosed if you lowball your start salary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140 View Post
I happen to think that staying with the same company and earning promotions is more effective. If you do eventually leave it looks better to have stayed longer, and you become vested in the retirement plan. In 5 years at my company I have had promotions with raises of 8% and 10%, about the same as in your plan but without having to go elsewhere.
It varies per place, situation, and industry. I know distant relatives that have been working at the same company for over... 10, 15 years? and make a good living there. I used to work with someone who could've stayed at the same company we were in and get a 6% raise. OR... he could jump ship and switch to another company and get a 50% raise (five-zero). AFAIK, he was making $60K at the time, so a 50% raise was quite significant.

Why not just stay with that company? The growth wasn't there. At 7%, it would've taken 7 years to get there. Jumping ship, he also got to take on new responsibilities. While it's not as good to jump ship, at least it helps to be able to explain that.
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:36 AM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,346 posts, read 80,679,251 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ackmondual View Post
To feel more confident about proposing a rate, try to do some research online, or get word from someone in the know of either what the industry pays, or what folks in similar position get paid. In some places, you're kind of hosed if you lowball your start salary.


It varies per place, situation, and industry. I know distant relatives that have been working at the same company for over... 10, 15 years? and make a good living there. I used to work with someone who could've stayed at the same company we were in and get a 6% raise. OR... he could jump ship and switch to another company and get a 50% raise (five-zero). AFAIK, he was making $60K at the time, so a 50% raise was quite significant.

Why not just stay with that company? The growth wasn't there. At 7%, it would've taken 7 years to get there. Jumping ship, he also got to take on new responsibilities. While it's not as good to jump ship, at least it helps to be able to explain that.
I agree completely, for a 50% raise I would leave in a minute. I was specifically addressing the OP and his goal of a mere 10% increase, which didn't seem worth the trouble and risks.
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:48 AM
 
249 posts, read 423,958 times
Reputation: 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by ackmondual View Post
It varies per place, situation, and industry. I know distant relatives that have been working at the same company for over... 10, 15 years? and make a good living there. I used to work with someone who could've stayed at the same company we were in and get a 6% raise. OR... he could jump ship and switch to another company and get a 50% raise (five-zero). AFAIK, he was making $60K at the time, so a 50% raise was quite significant.
For the new employer to offer such a big bump is the ideal. If it always worked like that -- or even if the new employer always was the one naming a number first -- there would be nothing to worry about.

I was thinking more of the scenario where you, the potential new hire, have to name a number. They say to aim for 10-20% more, and often the new employer looks at your old salary and bumps it slightly.

In my case, at an employer with fixed salary bands and a very high ratio of job seekers to actual hires, we employees know that what we're being paid is probably around the market rate or more -- if it were too low, not so many people would be looking for jobs here! So we've got a good handle on how much value we're (presumably) producing for our employer. Having earned a fairly specific number for several years, it feels unnatural to try to claim that I'm somehow worth more when the employer asks for a figure.

(I should add that I myself have never changed jobs, and have been with my employer for my entire 14-year career. I've never negotiated a salary before.)
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